03 Feb 2016 13:18:11
Right this is all getting pathetic now starting to sound like reds, James McCarthy doesn't score enough goals? So what it's not his job, him and Barry, who also takes too much stick on this site, are there to help out at the back when our full backs go forward so we should potentially have Rom Ross Geri niasse Seamus and Baines going forward creating/ scoring goals with Barry McCarthy jags and stones left to stop the counter attacks, if Martinez dropped one ov them and we left 3 players back he would get slated, I understand it's not going to plan at the minute and I am one ov many who are frustrated but to single out players like McCarty who work hard every game is pathetic and you should be ashamed of yaselves as blues, fair play if he didn't look interested and was angling for a move but c'mon the lad plays his hardest every week as do 99% of the team,
Let's start backing the lads starting tonight from first minute to last make goodison rock
Sorry for the rant but this site needs a reality check sometimes or it just becomes too depressing to read, keep up good work ed your like a Samaritan these days.
03 Feb 2016 13:37:43
I agree completely Johny, only thing though mate is we keep getting the same "lets all be happy and back the team tonight, positivity Blues"
We then get beat or draw and everyone is sad again, we should all do the following - Back the team on match night, if we get beat all moan like hell until the next match night, if we win all be happy for 24 hours, then all moan like hell again until the next match night then back the team again, and so on and so on:)
03 Feb 2016 14:16:59
I second that johny89. I was probably the one standing up for McCarthy the most.
Also see the irony in Murf1000 comment.
Still think we don't help things by not getting behind the team more. We should encourage them and cheer them on to do what we all really want. To win.
03 Feb 2016 14:24:24
We should be backing the team 100% I don't believe any player puts on that shirt and doesn't care if we lose, I agree I want rid of Martinez but his tactics sent the lads fault.
03 Feb 2016 15:51:38
I think I started this debate a while back and so want to put the record straight. I did not attack James McCarthy for his inability to score. rather I suggested we had to many central midfielders that were of a similar type and McCarthy was one of them. Cleverly, Barry, Besic and McCarthy are our central midfielders and between them they score no more than about 6 a season. I blame the manager for signing these 4 and when you consider some of the players they are replacing. Fellaini, Cahill, Osman and Pienaar. those plaayers averaged about 35 goals a season. they are definately not similar players and have different attributes. Signing any 22 of the 4 he signed would be ok as long as he signed a couple of others with different attributes. ie helped with asssists or scored a few goals. so my attaack was not on McCarthy. it was on the managers approach to midfield players. And I fully believe that is why we have so much possession every game yet create few opportunities.
03 Feb 2016 16:40:28
I don't care who is scoring our goals as long as there being scored all I know is we have scored more goals at this point in the season than any other premier league season so I'm happy with that.
03 Feb 2016 17:16:30
And that is wh.
03 Feb 2016 17:17:56
Everything you say is true Degsy. But I don't blame Martinez for signing those players. I think he was right. Imo we got all 4 at good value. You could even put Gibson into the mix.
I know what your saying they replaced the players you say score more goals. That's all down to change in tactics imo. Martinez didn't sign those to score goals.
He signed those to help the defence and allow Barkley, Del boy and Lukaku to score and create goals. Which all 3 are doing very well so far this season.
Problem is the defence. I know its not working with the defensive midfielders you mention along with the back 4.
I'm in total agreement with you about our last manager. Just think your argument about them players not scoring doesn't stand because they weren't signed for that reason due to tactics used.
I agree its not good to rely heavily on Lukaku. Seems to be the Martinez way. Maybe if he plays 4-4-2 with our new arrival we might see more goals coming from midfield also.
03 Feb 2016 17:22:35
And that is where your argument is flawed degsypulford you are not comparing the same thing so that you can bash McCarthy and Barry.
Pienaar played out wide so no comparison.
Cahill played behind the striker so no comparison.
Osman played mostly out wide occasionally in the middle.
Fellaini first season in the middle last season under Moyes behind the striker.
If you want to compare like for like Evertons midfield in Moyes' last season comprised of Gibson, Hitzlsperger, Neville, Heitinga playing in the middle and I am guessing there weren't many goals!
03 Feb 2016 17:27:03
Literally just about to post and NBTB took the words right out my mouth, spot on.
Degsy, IMO Besic, Barry and Cleverley are much better players than Osman and Pienaar, it's down to the tactics. Besic hasn't had a proper run in the team but we know his quality. Barry is a defensive midfielder, Cleverley can score but is deployed as a winger. The players are not at fault here, the manager is.
However, as NBTB says, we signed Lukaku, Deulofeu and brought in Barkley to do all that stuff and as a whole, the team scores more goals.
The issue is never goals, it's the defence not being coached properly.
03 Feb 2016 18:38:04
Well we will have to disagree. because whether you talk about central midfielders, holding midfielders, wide midfielders or even attacking midfielders playing just behind the center forward, they are still the midfield. and the 4 players of the last few seasons scored about 35 a season. the current 4 score about 5 a season. so add in Lukaku's 20 and we have a few more. but what happens when Lukaku goes? Thought about that? And why are we conceding so many? Because of his coaching? Maybe. Maybe there is something in that, but the one thing I would say is that we do not defend well as a team anymore. We have defenders. They defend. We have attackers. they attack. Then it is up to our midfielders to cover so much ground trying to support the attack and then cover the defense. The saying "a problem shared is a problem halved" springs to mind. Well my view is the same as it was 2 years ago. RM signs a certain type of hard working player for midfield. I still firmly believe that these players are not natural goalscorers nor creators. I might be wrong, but the league table does not lie to me. For every three goals we score, we concede 2.5.
{Ed025's Note - fair post that degs..
03 Feb 2016 18:41:43
Oh and it was no surprise to me that Osman played for about 60 mins against Man City and we looked pretty solid until he got knackered and was subbed. We need a couple of young Osmans or Pienaars. Playing both Barry and McCarthy in the same team works to a degree. But adding in Cleverly and/ or Besic just makes us so unbalanced.
03 Feb 2016 19:23:38
and Swan, I am not having a go. I respect your view. but you say Barry, Besic and Cleverly are better players than Osman and Pienaar? Seriously? How do you define better players? Remember theconversation started talking about goal contribution to the team. Osman got 8 alone in his last full season. (I am not saying he is still at that level) . Barry, Besic and McCarthy together will never score 8 in a season I guarantee that! Pienaar got 5 or 6 too. They are players that defend and also bring something to the attack. Assists and goals. I can count on one hand the assists and goals from the Martinez three. I accept they may look better running with the ball. Be better at tackling. Even long range passing. But Pienaar and Osman had the ability to hold the ball up, bring others into play and even get the odd shot away. Cahill had an incredible ability to arrive late and get headers in with so much power. shots too. His ability was very limited, but he used every bit of his nouse to intimidate the opposition and could also put a tackle in. I would rather have 3 Tim Cahills in the team than any of the Martinez 3 players but I guess that's just my opinion and I will never be able to prove what Iam saying.
03 Feb 2016 19:34:57
I agree with every word you say in both posts Degsy. Apart from one sentence. Our current 4 midfielders score 5 a season.
We actually have 5 midfielders and Barkley alone has scored more. Add in Del boy and how many do you have.
I'm not disagreeing with anything else you say. There's just so many ways you could look at it.
I agree with Osman and Pienaar. I've only ever praised them. Recently stood up for Osman.
Doing the same for McCarthy.
I think your gripe is more with Martinez than anything. Wouldn't be talking about the players as much.
Its more to do with tactics and formation than players your mentioning imo.
03 Feb 2016 21:53:05
Absolutely NBTB. my gripe is with Martinez. He needs more variety in his midfielders. that's exactly what I am saying. Yes Barkley has scored more than the others put together. But look at the players from 3 years ago. Felli, Osman, Pienaar, Cahill. all scored. Its the 3 or 4 regulars that Martinez picks that don't score. Yes Barkley does. but that's 1 midfielder. To a degree Deulofeu does too (when he is picked) and Mirralas (when he is picked) and Naismith does (or did when he was picked) . Fact is certain midfielders will never score loads. I would put Gibson also in that category. but it all adds to the pressure on Lukaku and Barkley. and it makes it easier for the opposition to stop us. it is almost stop Lukaku and you stop Everton. let's drop this now though. We mulled it enough.
04 Feb 2016 08:35:47
Good first post degsy you keep comparing attacking midfielders to McCarthy Barry besic silly point Martinez has made vgood signings all over the pitch we not an ageing squad now we were under moyes in his short time Martinez has turned us into a very young exciting team should be doing better yes but I still believe he will get it right you say boring non scoring signings del boy Lennon lukaku now naisse the Swiss kid bringing the best outta Barkley very good signings all over pitch for me.