29 Jun 2016 08:35:02
I really can't get into all this excitement of "we have a new manager, things are great! "
I really want to see him make a couple of signings. I have said before today that in the last 3 years our squad deteriorated by quite a bit. Our league performances in the last 2 seasons really prove my point. Some of this can be put down to RM's tactics. That I accept. But when I look at how we signed players under the Moyes days (and I am not necessarily giving him the credit. perhaps something changed in our scouting system or structure re players signing? ) we signed players like: Baines 4 mill, Coleman 60k, Jags 4 mill, Stones 1.5 mill, Mirallas 4 mill. I know we also paidbig dosh for Fellaini. but we doubled it by selling him. In the last 3 years we signed Kone 6 mill, Niasse, 13 mill, Alcaraz free, McCarthy 13 mill, Besic 4 mill, Del Boy 4 mill, Lukaku 24 mill, Mori 13 mill, Barry 4 mill, Lennon 4 mill. For an outlay probably 4 or 5 times as expensive, I believe the squad has deteriorated and the players are worse now than after the huge outlay. I understand that Man City are very interested in Stones and we can recoup probably around 30 mill. but where does that leave us? I also understand Lukaku would go for big money. but again how do we replace our higher valued players? Thses big money players want Champios League or at least Europa League. and before shouting me down. wait and see. Because I saw a thing about the Dembele player going to Celtic with loads of posts of people asking why he went there. not one mentioned Champions League! Call me a misery guts if you like, but I am getting on in age and have seen lots of blind enthusiasm before today many times. Yes I can see RK bringing a couple of players in. but maybe not the ones everyone is expecting. I think he will do well to get our best 2 players to remain. especially Stones. I think Lukau just stirs things up to get a pay rise every now and then. but I think there is substance in the Stones rumours. Mid table will actually please me. Look at all the other clubs. Look at how the Crystal Palaces are splashing big money. Our 100 million that is burning a hole in our pockets is insignificant when you look at how easy RM spent that amount and made our squad worse!
29 Jun 2016 09:17:53
I'd rather not discuss Martinez anymore as it's been done to death, but I completely disagree that we have a worse squad now. The Moyes players you mentioned above are still here (albeit older but we have some good young players coming through) . Aside from Kone, Niasse and McGeady (who should all be gone by the end of the summer) all of the other players have a future at the club. The squad depth has greatly improved, and now there's only a couple of positions we are short in (Which I expect RK to sort out) . Notice how you conveniently left out Bilyaletdinov, Kroldrup, Beattie and Simon Davies out of your Moyes signings list.
29 Jun 2016 09:25:45
Although touching on what you said about Palace, I am concerned that £100m isn't enough when the likes of Palace and West Ham are spending the same. Then again, we just have to trust that Koeman knows what he's doing. There's a weight of expectation here that maybe he didn't quite have at Southampton, and if he wants his big Barcelona move in a few years we will have to perform.
29 Jun 2016 11:01:15
Blue Tommy, it is all about opinions. I know that. But you list a few players from Moyes days. Billy and Beattie did ok. but not brilliant I agree. Beattie was good at first but faded. My original point was that there is a wave of enthusiasm sweeping amongst the fans. I am cautiously optomistic. I am afraid that when we kick off the season, the ones with all this enthusiasm might get brough down back to earth and do what often happens at Goodison. get on the players' backs. I have seen it so many times during my 49 years of supporting them at home. The away fans seem to be a bit more supportive and loyal. Back to the point. Moyes was here 11 years and made a few bad signings. But the overall improvement in the squad he made was incredible. (an RM quote I know) . Then RM came in and has brought in a range of players. Some have improved the squad. In my eyes/ opinion Lukaku and Mori have in particular been improvements. I would say the jury is out on Barry, McCarthy, Lennon, Cleverly, Besic, Robles and Deulofeu. Barry to an extent has been invaluable, so maybe he should be with Lukaku and Mori as an improvement? The others above listed have been quite brilliant at times and terrible at others. Similar to your Moyes players listed. Inconsistent is the key word. Then there is: McGeady, Kone, Niasse and Alcaraz. So tosum up. our first team is still quite full of Moyes players. A shining star that has been over used (Barkley) who was here anyway. So in my view the squad is weaker. Howard was good until his last 2 seasons. Did we replace him with better? The back 4 (all Moyes signings are still there. Distin was too old and yet does great at Bornemouth. Yes Mori has replaced him. But is Mori so much better? Questionable. The midfielders of Osman, Pienaar and Gibson and Mirallas were still here until just now and 1 is always injured. They were replaced by Barry, McCarthy, Besic and Cleverly. Barry is so slow he looks like he is 10 yards behind younger players so gets booked every game. McCarthy is brilliant at breaking up play but useless at forward passing or creating anything. Besi is also great at breaking up play but as yet has shown no consistency. hence being sub or subbed a lot. Cleverly is Cleverly. Mr Average/ dependaple. The one thing none of these players have between them is goals or creatio nof goals. Pienaar, Osman, Gibson to a degree and definately Mirallas all had goals and forward passing in their arsenal. We are badly missing that. Lennon has always flattered to decieve. Fantastic pace but often fails with delivery or end product. McGeady I don't need to say anything. When you also consider reliable players like Hibbert now gone. I really do think our squad is inferior to 3 years ago. I also think that if it was better we would have been higher in the league the last 2 seasons. It is my opinion. but I might be wrong?
29 Jun 2016 11:05:35
The "top 4" clubs are talking about individual players costing 80 million plus. Liverpool have just spent 30 million on Mane. Palace ofered 32 million for the Belgian lad. Leicester must have bags of money to spend. Other clubs have wealthy owners. Our 100 million is keeping us on a par with the average clubs. Not taking us to the top quite yet. I think this blind optimism is worrying because the first fans to turn on OUR players will be the ones with big expectations. That is my main point.
29 Jun 2016 11:39:23
''There's a weight of expectation here that maybe he didn't quite have at Southampton, and if he wants his big Barcelona move in a few years we will have to perform. ''
Those words Tommy and similar thoughts abounding and echoing through most Evertonian minds!
Degsy mate. . . the slate on current players (most anyway) has been wiped clean theirs is to now impress upon RK they deserve to be in 'his' team.
This should be interesting .
29 Jun 2016 11:41:14
i agree that expectations need to be kept in check. i refrained from using 'realistic' because realistically, with te squad we have, top 4 is not impossible. i mean Leicster outplayed evry team int he league with players who at the end of last season/ start of this where seen as middle table players if that.
i am one of many who believe this is out best squad in a number years. i liked the astute signing from moyes but i put some pretty heavy praise on martinez for having the 'ability' to take 33 year old barry on lone, for enabling us to take and ultimately sign Lukaku and Del boy. It is also worth noting his failures like Atsu of course.
no-one what is come now we have a new manager. BK has said that RK has not promised him Champ league like martinez, RK looks to have a good head on his shoulders and all we can do is judge him based on his first season with us.
all i can say for sure is that i am looking forward to the season ahead. Hope the lads play well under RK and hope to see some good signings coming in. Mahrez, Vardy and Kante cost Leicster less than 5M.
As everton suporters who witnessed 60k for coleman we should know that big money signings may not prove to be the best players coming into the squad.
29 Jun 2016 11:52:02
I do feel like you've got rose-tinted glasses where Moyes is concerned, but I'm happy to agree to disagree on this one. I believe quality and depth is present in much of the squad, whereas under Moyes we often only had a starting 11, and filled the bench up with players that were never going to play, such as Jutkewicz. I am excited for our future but I for one will not be expecting immediate success. I agree with your reservations regarding the fans as many of them ruined most of last season by moaning. I can understand people who say money should be what motivates a player to play well, but none of us have jobs where thousands of people who are supposed to be on your side start booing you after 5 minutes. Patience is the key here.
29 Jun 2016 12:13:43
I think the 100m us just a figure quoted. . i think that moshiri will pay what ever needed to get us to challenge for a cl place.
29 Jun 2016 12:26:58
Ok points taken guys and without going on and on. this is the basis of my pont. RM certainly improved the squad with a goalscorer. No need to mention who. He also really, really strengthened the midfield positions with grafters. The ones I previously mentioned certainly put a shift in most games. and here is my point.
I believe RM wanted a team that grafted and grafted moving the ball around, keeping possession as we all know. In an effort to break down the opposition. Then the goalscorer(s) would pop a few in and Bob's your uncle. In reality, the players he signed were brilliant at grafting.
However, once we had the ball, we could pass it all over the place. forwards, sideways and backwards. but in todays modern game, teams are set up with real defensive coaching. So if a full back over-laps, the other full back usually drops back in and one of the other centre halves moves out to cover for him. Or one of the holding midfielders drops in to cover.
So if your team is set up to retain possession, it gives the other team time to re-organise and have their defence shift to whatever is necessary. Now the goalscorer is waiting for the ball during this period and makes run after run until he eventually becomes totally fed up because each time it looks like he is going to get the ball played to him, the midfield or full back play it sideways or backwards.
Yes this is partly due to the coaching of the previous manager. but it is also the ability of the midfielders is lacking compared to the passing players from the previous manager. I think I have seen McCarthy play about 3 penetrating passes since he has been here.
Barry about 2. Cleverly not many and Besic not many. I would be interested to see the stats on their assists if anyone has them? Obviously someone has served Lukaku and Barkley with assists but I wonder who? I also know Barkley has a big number of assists.
like I said previously he is a shining star and can play forwards. but too much weight was placed on his shoulders too soon. You could see his confidence drain in some games.
29 Jun 2016 12:34:18
Much to do with our transfer targets will become clear when we apoint a DoF.
What i don't like is statements coming from the club saying we are going to make a marquee signing. our team has a few players that have failed to shine brightly in the last few years we don't need to add another prima donna to the list.
We need what is says on the tin style players. People who will do the job and do it right. Players like distin osman weir who give 100% all the time and fight til the final whistle. that's what we need.
29 Jun 2016 13:05:39
Much as I like and agree with your post Backofthenet, I don't think the point about fight is the important bit. It is lack of flair to create things. McGeady was signed for creation. Not good enough. Lennon was signed for flair. maybe ok but very inconsistent. Was Spurs 3rd choice! All the other midfield players listed in my post are defensively minded.
29 Jun 2016 12:36:52
Degsy give it a rest. always the pessimist. We get your point about goals from midfield, I think you mentioned it once or a thousand times before. As for your love for Ozzie and Hibbert, let it go will ya. Ozzie got a few games last season and he had clearly lost his pace and was not up to it anymore.
I like the way people make out that Hibbert and Ozzie were loyal servants to the club, well they were getting paid thousands to sit on their asses for the last few years. The club isn't there to waste money on players who have been loyal for years. If we want to succeed we need to ship out the dead weight and unfortunately that's what Ozzie and hibbo are.
29 Jun 2016 14:28:06
Well said Ray, let's look forward now instead of regurgitating the same spiel.
29 Jun 2016 14:48:10
blueray, you will be one of the first on here moaning about lack of loyalty from Lukaku. Then preach about "why should we show loyalty to home grown players? " Read my post again. yes it mentions Hibbert and Ossie once I think. It is about a thousand words long and talks about tactics, fears, fans and lots of other things. It also talks about silly little boys getting over enthusistic because we have a bit of dosh if you want me to reply in the insulting manner that you started?
29 Jun 2016 15:19:51
I meant no offence degs and apologise for that but your comments always relate back to the same things regarding the lack of goals from midfield and ossie. i never get on and slate players and comment only when I feel the need to, unlike others (not including yourself) who comment at the drop of the hat and nothing interesting to say. I agreed more often with you when you were debating with swan and have no problem with you whatsoever, but can you not move on from the moyes days and look forward to the koeman days like the rest of us.
29 Jun 2016 19:53:52
ok mate and sorry for my over reaction. Point is I only mentioned O**ie, Pi****r and Hi**ert because they are retiring and need replacing. The ones we have already signed for midfield slots donot fit into the same category as Os and Pien. ie inside hard working midfielders with the ability to create a penetrating pass to a forward or a goal themselves. In my view that is the priority. I said at the time Shaquiri, Payet and Mahrez should have been signed. All 3 were/ are quality creative players with a goal. We wasted more money on McCarthy and Barry. About 17 million together. The need is for only 1 of them in my view. Then we added Besic. another of similar ilk. I won't mention goals or assists but imagine Mahrez and Shaquiri in a team ahead of McCarthy.
29 Jun 2016 21:46:19
I agree. would love to have someone of payets quality in the team but that's what I think most of us are hoping for, someone like koeman with his reputation as a player might be able to find some gems and bring them in and now that we have a bit of money hopefully that will help. its a new era for Everton and i don't think we will the league next year but I think the future will be exciting.