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01 Aug 2016 08:07:10
Here below is a post I put on 12th August 2015. One year ago. It was when we were rumoured to be signing Jonny Evans to replace Stones who was rumoured then to be leaving. I was criticsised then for suggesting an ageing squad was developing. I banged on about it for 2 years (as some of you will remember) It was my reply to a post about Jonny Evans adding yet further age to the squad and how we may pay for this with wholesale changes being needed just about now:

Quote:. it is mainly about unbalance of squad, youth and up and coming players versus "lazy" signings. Stones is 21 and obviously one of the best if not the center backs around. Evans is 27/ 28. Add him in to the squad with the following players signed by Martinez (I know some have gone. but in 2 years these are the players we had at center back) Distin, Alcaraz, Jags, Evans? When we signed Galloway and a couple of other kids. eg Garbutt. they were good future signings. Signing the likes of McCarthy too. But Barry, Kone, Alcarazand now Lennon and maybe Evans. to me it is adding age to an already ageing squad. One or two mature players are needed. not 7, 8 or 9. Especially when you already have 26 and 27 year olds. It all catches up later on and gives future problems. this is what I was frustratingly trying to point out last year. as players age, they are also more injury prone. Evans may well be a decent player? But without looking for another Stones from Barnsley or another Coleman from Slithgo (both signed at 20 years old) we accept that we have other clubs cast offs. Players deemed not good enough by their clubs! And I can guarantee Evans will be out injured more than Stones over the next 3 seasons. Just because of his age.

Agree1 Disagree6

01 Aug 2016 09:31:23
I thought we'd turned a corner Degs, but now it seems we are back to the "I told you so" of old. Yawn.

Unfortunately the squad is unbalanced, both age and position-wise. We have a great crop of youngsters coming through but most of them need a year or two to be first team squad members. Our former manager did not replace key players as you have mentioned 76,000,346 times.

However it's not that dire Degsy. As long as any new GK we buy is 33 or under we should get a good 4-5 years out of him. We have Coleman, McCarthy, Mirallas, Oviedo and Lennon who are at peak ages and should give us at least 3 years service. The issue with Kone and McGeady is that they aren't good enough, irrespective of age. We have Besic, Barkley, Deulofeu, Lukaku, Mori and Garbutt who are all under 25. Galloway and Davies are two youngsters that are definitely first team ready. Browning, Pennington, Holgate and Dowell are not far behind. Barry, Jags and Baines will need replacing in the next couple of years but should last this season barring any major injuries.

With that in mind, I think providing we buy 3-4 quality players each season, within 3 seasons we will have a good squad again. This year we can certainly make do and mend with 3-4 more signings.

Age isn't an issue, it all depends on the individual. We got 4 good years out of then 31 year old Distin, yet we have yet to get a year out of then 24 year old Gibson. It's all a matter of perspective.

01 Aug 2016 10:03:28
You took the words out of mouth Blue Tommy. Brilliant post!

01 Aug 2016 11:25:15
I disagree with both of you on a couple of important points: Firstly, yes I agree that players are keeping their fitness levels up longer than the past due to healthy lifestyles and exercise. However, not many do a Distin. Yes a few do, but most outfield players with the top clubs are off by 31. That's how we got Barry. So if you are striving to be top. you need the younger version. Barry was better/ fitter and more use to a club at 26. Yes he did a job for us. but each season on he gets booked more and more and is then a liability because so many goals are conceded from free kicks these days. So if we are striving for mediocrity. then yes sign the older players. I thought we were striving for more? Secondly: even the top goalkeepers are in this bracket. Reflexes slow down. Thirdly: 5 of the players you list will be well past it in the 3 year time span you quote for rebuilding. And that is assuming that the 12 players we bring in will all slot into the squad no problem. Look at the last 6 or 7 signings and see that only about 50% of signings do actually slot in. Fourthly: you list 7 youngsters that will be in this 1st team squad. I can guarantee that half of them will not make the grade. So to summarise, if all that you say could happen actually happens, then yes all will be well. But I can also guarantee that we will lose some players. just like Stones and Lukaku may go. We will also lose some to injury. That is life. So I stick by my forecast of 2 years ago and it is not totally negative, because Like I say. this is where Mr Walsh does come in. He will bring in the 3 or 4 players each season you say. By then we may be back to where we were 3 seasons ago. Right now in my humble opinion, we are behind that level. I respect your views and time will tell. I am still ready to eat the humble pie, but hope you are too if I turn out to be right.

01 Aug 2016 12:29:05
I am so bored to death of posts by Degsy. Always slating our team, horrendously negative no matter what happens and constant repetition of points. You keep saying you hate to be negative (and you use quote marks there as if to say 'im not negative, why accuse me of that') so how about in future, if you don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about something, just don't say it.
I wish a personal comment about someone wasn't necessary because i like reading everyone's opinions whether i share them or not, but in the case of Degsy i just get so damn depressed.

01 Aug 2016 12:59:13
Degsy every day now you post the same messages two or three times. Do you not get bored typing it over and over or do you just cut and paste? You have an opinion as do all the rest of us, it would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything. And its also VERY boring having the same conversations with you many times each day. Your posts are making me want to start watching Big Brother with the missus rather than read it. If you keep banging on the same stuff people will stop replying. I think even BT and NBTB are getting fed up with the repetitiveness of your posts.
We all know what you think of our squad and past managers so change the record. Please! COYB.

01 Aug 2016 13:34:03
This is all hypothetical. Realistically we could sign 4 players and keep Stones and Lukaku but they could both break a leg and Barkley could do his ligaments in when we play Spurs. That's football.

So, in response:

Firstly, centre backs generally last longer than midfielders. We've had several over 35s do really well over the last 20 years. In addition, for me you don't have to be a world beater at centre back, just solid.

Secondly, for me goalkeepers peak between around 28 and 35. So I don't see how any of this is a problem. Tell me you would turn your nose up at a 35 year old Nigel Martyn right now. The man was great for us until he lost it. at 39. Even Howard was good until 35.

Thirdly, there are players who will step up e. g. Galloway for Jags, Davies for Barry. Also, that is 50% of signings by the god awful team of Martinez and Kevin Reeves. We now have Moshiri's money, and a Walsh/ Koeman partnership. I'm not saying they won't make mistakes, but I doubt they will have that poor a record when it comes to signings.

Fourth, providing no serious injuries or attitude problems, I can say with some certainty that Galloway and Davies will make it. Holgate and Dowell are also very highly thought of, so I would say that they also stand a good chance of making it. I am, however of the opinion that a far higher percentage of youngsters can make it given the correct training and the right amount of game time. I think we have a great youth setup (funnily enough that's the one positive contribution Martinez made) and we will start to see this in the coming years.

Finally, I don't think we are necessarily behind. I just think that we haven't moved with the times so other teams have improved and overtaken us.

I'm just presenting an alternative viewpoint. Realistically, as I've said before, the reality will probably end up somewhere between our visions.

01 Aug 2016 15:37:41
I really don't see where you say I am slating the team in that post WorcesterEFC. I agree implied that we have suffered bad management. but that surely cannot be seen as slating the team? Blue Tommy please tell me the several over 35's center backs we have had? Agree that keepers tend to go on until 35 now. but only specialones go past that. Yes Martyn was special. Stekelenburg is 33 now. All I am saying is that is probably a stop gap. If we sign Ashly Williams that too is probably a stop gap. Barry if he makes the first team (and so far Koeman has not even looked at him properly) is a stop gap. Jags is probably now a stop gap. Kone at best is a stop gap. McGeady, Gibson are both probably stop gaps. Hibbert, Osman and Pienaar (who were stop gaps) have all just been released. I would prefer to see us sign some 22 to 26 year olds. Sorry if that appears negative. Actually I am not sorry. and I am sure Koeman would rather sign players in that age group. Blue Tommy I take what you say about the youngsters, but are they ready for a whole season of first team action now? Or do you mean as cover here and there? Because add up all those 7 stop gaps I listed and add in to that perhaps youngsters being used as stop gaps. say 3 . mean we have included 10 stop gap players in our squad, add Niasse in too. then maybe, just maybe the loss of Lukaku and Stones. My personal view is that it is too much change in one go for any squad. It is no criticism of any individual players. just a comment made from my limited knowledge of football.

01 Aug 2016 21:53:49
Realistically, most squads are compiled of 10 stop gaps as you describe them. Or even if they aren't stop gaps, they often leave as the club is a stop gap to them e. g. Stones. And as you are pedantic enough to ask me to name a few shall I start with Weir and Stubbs, who did tremendously well for your idol Moyes. And you mention Stekelenburg as a stop gap, well he's a reserve keeper. Aren't most reserve keepers stop gaps. We've had a few over the years. Wessels, Nash, Mucha etc.







 

 

 
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