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03 Jan 2017 10:48:16
Message to NBTB, Hey mate you said I did not answer your post below. I assume you meant the ones re Barry being 5 yards slow and whether he and Holgate and another youngster (cant remember which one you said) were good or bad signings? I will go throught this now: Barry was literally 5 yards behind Hazard and another Chelsea midfielder a couple of seasons ago. No exageration. He lost the ball when we were in an attacking position on the edge of their box with about 10 mins to go. He tried to chase back but by the time Hazard had played a one two and got to our box, Barry was 5 yrds behind. I know Hazard is one of the quickest premier players. but this was 2 or 3 seasons ago. I watch Barry now and he has not got quicker that is for sure. Was he a good signing? Well he had a great season and almost single handedly kept us up. Should we have offered him a new contract? Maybe as cover for young Davies who should now be getting more game time. Holgate really looks good to me. I think maybe you have misunderstood my points? We have a very ageing squad. We have plenty of promising youngsters who may develop into great players. But most successful teams have a core set of players at their peak! The peak of a premiership player is usually 26 to 30. We have a couple in this category but more below and more above those years. I am useless at explaining myself at times and people misunderstand me, so apologies mate. This was what I was trying to say. Hope that makes sense? I was not trying to say Barry is rubbish or anything like that. Just that our squad is too old and Barry was better probably 4 seasons ago and really is on his last legs and should not be considered more than a support player now in my opinion.

Agree2 Disagree1

03 Jan 2017 13:10:57
Agree Degs. No matter how well players done in the past this is a business and every player has his sell by date. Sadly for Barry midfield is probably the hardest place to play once your legs are going. I appreciate what he has done for us, but it's now time to move on. Still think we need a quality creative midfielder to support Ross as Davies needs a bit more time imo. Think if they got schneiderlin then he would be the perfect replacement for Barry.

03 Jan 2017 13:34:40
I think RK sees that as well degs, hence we are seeing less and less of Barry on the field. He is too slow, this was highlighted most for me against that shower of s£! te when he came on for Macca, then I realised just how much he was holding us back rather than taking us forward. But he has served us well and can still in helping the youngsters progress.

03 Jan 2017 13:48:19
Agree Degsy with everything you say. Watching Davies yesterday he obviously has a lot of talent and played well but he also made a lot of side passes when he should have been thinking about moving the ball forward. The more he plays the more confident he will become to take chances and not make these safe side passes. As far as Barry and Jags are concerned they are just too slow, maybe OK for a few minutes at the end of games but that is all. I just hope that we can bring in a few players who are at their peak and not just players who are not good enough to get into sides like United.

03 Jan 2017 13:48:19
Agree Degsy with everything you say. Watching Davies yesterday he obviously has a lot of talent and played well but he also made a lot of side passes when he should have been thinking about moving the ball forward. The more he plays the more confident he will become to take chances and not make these safe side passes. As far as Barry and Jags are concerned they are just too slow, maybe OK for a few minutes at the end of games but that is all. I just hope that we can bring in a few players who are at their peak and not just players who are not good enough to get into sides like United.

03 Jan 2017 17:25:54
I agree with most that post Degsy. He obviously has the best years behind him. As for the Hazard thing I'll to take your word on it being 5 yards.

We have a good few players in the older category. We also have a good few in the younger category. Lukaku and Barkley are big players yet still only 22 or 23. Stones that left also. We have some good younger players too. Holgate, Galloway, Davies, DCL etc.

That was the point I was making. While we have our fair share of older players we also have our fair share of young players. The middle is the problem. As you say 26-30.

This I would imagine will be rectified over the next couple of windows.

No need for apology's. The reason I mentioned Holgate and Galloway in the other thread is because they were signed by Martinez. You the only good signing he had was Lukaku.

I'm far from a fan of Martinez. Never wanted him and never believed in him. Even though I still supported our team. He left the club in an awful state.

What I don't agree with was that Lukaku was his only good signing. Barry, Holgate and Galloway were signed under Martinez time here and were good signings in my humble opinion.

I'm not sticking up for Martinez. I try to keep things as realistic as possible. Even though I never wanted him at Everton doesn't mean I'm going to criticise all he done.

He was under constraints while here compared to the current set up. It appears we have more money to spend and are in a healthier position since Mishori came.

Lennon, Del and Clev were value when bought imho. Don't get me wrong they don't look like having a future at Everton. But the point is they were value at the time.

Clev for free which if sold will be profit. Del for something like £4.5m and Lennon for around the same. Although they didn't and probably never will set fires a light at Goodison, can we critise Martinez that much for signing them?

Imho, no. Hindsight is very easy to look at things. Looking back now I don't think Martinez signings were as bad as people are making out.

Mainly because what alternatives players could he of bought for similar prices? Holgate and Galloway hardly ever get mentioned when talking about Martinez signings.

The reason I didn't want Martinez was because if his style of play, tactics, team selection, falling out with players. Namely Distin and Mirallas.

Pretty much everything with Martinez I didn't like but some signings he made were ok. It's very easy to point the finger and say he signed bad players. If I remember correctly we weren't a wash with money.

His signings imho were OK overall. Everything else bad.

03 Jan 2017 22:54:17
I guess we will have to agree to disagree mate. I will accept that not everything he did was bad. but you keep saying Holgate and Galloway were good signings. As yet they have not proven themselves. Perhaps they will? Perhaps they wont? Lennon, Del and Clev? My view on all is average to poor. Ok they didn't cost much. but . and it is a big but. Walter Smith ran the club at break even on transfers for about 6 years. Moyes ran it in profit for 11 years and left a very strong squad that needed some youngsters (which Martinez did bring in) and some more 23 to 26 year olds coming to their peak. In fact he signed Barry, Eto'o, Alcaraz, Kone and others that aged the squad. and at a loss of some few million. I don't want to go over old ground yet again for the umpteenth time, but he did not see or make allowances for replacing our retiring players. You could say Moyes left us with an ageing squad. which to some degree is true. but Martinez then did nothing to combat this. he actually compounded the issue. I got into some very heated debates on this and was accused of being negative and sometimes not even an Evertonian which upset me a great deal. Icould see the problem developing. don't get me wrong about Lennon in particular. He has overperformed in my opinion. But his end product often is lacking. Del Boy lookslike a boy most of the time and under achieves. Cleverly is one of those who gives 100% but does he ever create a goal or score? Hardly ever. Same as Del. So I don't agree that his signings were ok overall. I think our squad is much weaker than the one he inherited (Lukaku excepted) and yet he spent much more than the previous 2 managers. But I respect your view and if you think the squad is as good as the one he inherited, then that's ok with me. I am coming up for the Man City game if you fancy a beer? I don't get up so often these days living in Cornwall but would be delighted to buy you one! My debating partner!

03 Jan 2017 23:20:41
My main point with Holgate and Galloway is they were young players he signed. Not yet made it but have shown positive signs.

I'm not saying Del, Lennon and Clev are great players. I mean the circumstances that Martinez was in they were decent enough and from a financial view made good business sense.

The age thing I think is tricky. Every year we all get older! Players in and out of the club is a revolving door and there is so much to consider.

I thoroughly agree with you about Smith and Moyes. Loved them both.

Nothing would make me happier than having a beer with you Degsy. Thing is I live in Ireland. Sorry if it comes across like I pretend to be from Liverpool. I don't intentionally do that if it comes across that way.

I post regularly because I'm a true blue and have been all my life. It's just a passion I have. It seems the older I get the more passionate I get. Don't get to many games but very rarely miss watching one. Love the banter on this site. Glad I came across it.

03 Jan 2017 23:20:42
Really good post NBTB. You can add Robles and Besic to that as well. For the money he bought them for they have been good buys.

You get what you pay for and is why looking forward we should all feel rather excited after the next couple of windows the type of player we may have.

As for the players Koeman inherited they are improving under him and may turn out to be better than they would have under Martinez. The ones that don't won't be here for long.

04 Jan 2017 08:18:37
NBTB you are as Blue as me. I know that. No need to apologise for where you live. I am the same now retired in Cornwall. Yes Besic was a good other signing BJU. Robles. yes ok maybe. But to sum up. squad is now older, weaker (my opinion) and cost a lot more than previous ones. I would say Koeman's signings to date are better than Martinez's if that helps get my point across. And Koeman said it was a bad window for him. Gueye, Williams, Valencia and Stekers already an improvement. Calvert-Lewin for the future. But Koeman does need some 25 - 28 year olds in now at their peaks. Watch this space. And let me know next time you are over and I will try and get to the game for a real heated debate over that pint! I do get quite animated over Everton FC.

04 Jan 2017 08:53:50
Yes BlueJohnUns, that's what I'm getting at too. Same players imho play better under Koeman. Totally agree.

I agree Degsy that Koeman has made better signings so far. No doubt about that. We will meet for a beer. No doubt about the passion for Everton FC on this site either!







 

 

 
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