Everton banter 38103


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20 Jun 2017 20:48:40
Hi all,
I have a question but it's not really about Everton, it's just i'm not too sure where i can ask it sorry.

So i was wondering, with the huge amounts of tv revenue and other prize money each team gets each year, does this mean we will never see the complete demise of a big club again?

A few years back the situation was the same in that, to break top 4 and make a title challenge, big spending was needed but was a gamble, if it backfired the club would slip down the league, get relegated and be burdened by huge costs that led to complete collapse. I think of Leeds, Blackburn, Portsmouth (and Newcastle, although they seemed on a better financial footing to deal with relegation) .

Nowadays though, it seems every team can splash £100 mil without batting an eyelid, knowing that next season even bigger amounts of revenue would be delivered, massive parachute payments are in place for relegation, and those big signings will generate good sales that will put the relegation teams head and shoulders above other Championship teams to make an almost instant return. I can't see how any current EPL team can implode so much to match the disasters of the past.

Essentially i'm asking, do you think finances have now made the game 'safe' for the current Premier League teams, with very few fairytale clubs, such as Huddersfield and Blackpool etc, ever able to join the elite?

{Ed002's Note - I think you are likely correct in the short term. In the longer term there is still a plan that a number of "elite" clubs have to breakaway from their leagues and form a pan European league that would cause a restructuring. UEFA are aware of this and are trying very hard to keep control of matters and pander to these sides. It will be discussed again when the clubs meet in August.

It remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter between a dozen or more clubs.

Without going in to too much detail: (a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions. (b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues. (c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc.. (d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA. (e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs want it to happen as soon as possible (2018) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2022 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2027 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.

There is a counter-proposal to the pan-European breakaway that has partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. This is an option to the breakaway as everyone now knows the reality of it. The proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal). The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. However, UEFA are now considering yet another proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support.

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis.

A further counter proposal exists as a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and Southa American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite".}

Agree2 Disagree0

20 Jun 2017 21:26:50
Ed, fantastic information, albeit gut wrenching. ultimately it sounds like the death of football as we all know it, and certainly looks like it would completely change the sport, and the support, which has always been largely governed by the local area you grew up in, and/ or the people who have influence on you ( friends/ family) . If what your saying comes to fruition it could literally kill myself support for the game.

20 Jun 2017 22:16:51
I think the league your talking about Ed, will finish football off for me personally. I would cut off completely it makes me sick to the core knowing this breakaway 'elite' league is being seriously talked about. There's never been a fair enough playing field in football in my lifetime (born in 96) but this elite league that would only allow certain clubs would be the tipping point. What's your thoughts ed?

{Ed002's Note - The game has changed significantly and will continue to do so. Football at the highest level is big business and attracts the sponsorship it does because the sponsors wish to tap in to the disposable income of the fans and ride the back of the advertising that flows naturally from the success some clubs achieve. Long gone are the days of the cloth-capped, hobnailed-booted, chimney sweep making his way, rattle in hand, to cheer on his team at Anfield on a Saturday afternoon. I have explained that there will be changes, probably within the next 10 to 12 years, which will force the restructuring of all of the leagues in Europe and likely do away with the likes of UEFA. You will have the opportunity to see the likes of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Juventus and the other major European sides play in week-on-week regular competition at The Emirates, Stamford Bridge etc.. You will have the opportunity to visit Milan, Barcelona, Monaco, etc. every couple of weeks to watch your team play - if they make the cut. If you want to don your cloth cap, have a pint of wallop with your chums before going off to the local match, perhaps one of the sides from the suburbs will have survived so you can go and watch them?

I hold a reasonably strong view in terms of the need to restructure football in Europe in any case. For me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroot sports get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good. Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as ameteurs or face extinction (yet again). A possible option might result from a potential landmark decision that UEFA must make in June or July - and that could facilitate the ownership of of lower-tier sides by the more senior sides and then work as a feeder club.}

20 Jun 2017 22:46:53
If the breakaway was to happen, I feel that the best option would be a British league. This would improve grassroots football in Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

20 Jun 2017 23:48:54
Thank you very much for the excellent reply Ed002!

Personally i like the idea of restructuring European competitions rather than leagues but ultimately i think we all know which way it is heading. I really believe that a breakaway league should have at least 2 divisions, creating the excitement and pain of promotion and relegation, there's certainly enough 'big' teams to accommodate 2 divisions of 20 teams each, but i fear the clubs pushing for it would be dead against any chance of losing their place at the top and so will push for 1 division only.

It's such a shame to imagine the loss of so many local teams, such as Worcester, but teams like this are already struggling to stay in existence and there's absolutely no way further redistribution of funds will in any way help. Really interesting idea though about creating feeder clubs which would help a few. Also, the death knell of the historic F. A. Cup would be sad to see but no lower tier sides to create the magic gives little choice.

I certainly understand the glamour for clubs involved, welcoming the global elite to your ground every other week, and the opportunity to watch these matches is a mouthwatering idea as a football fan, and there's no doubting that viewing figures for televised games would be astronomical.

Merging the English and Scottish league would be great, an end to the dominance of Celtic/ Rangers, and an away trip for Everton to Ibrox every season is something i will 100% be excited to be a part of, so there's always an upside.

One question i wonder though, if one of the teams pushing for the breakaway league, let's say Arsenal, end up taking a turn for the worse over the next 7 or so years, sliding to mid table at best or perhaps even relegation, then would this impact on them getting the spot? As a team pushing for it, a 'founder', being a global brand and achieving constant European football, i can see why they would be involved, but if they slip to become a lesser team then surely they won't be wanted. Are the spots in the league up for review or are they more or less figured out already?

{Ed002's Note - The clubs are all commited and an off season would not change anything. Right now there is a group of sides that would certainly be the starting point.}

20 Jun 2017 23:57:36
Wow ed, what a response that is! Really interesting read.

21 Jun 2017 12:43:15
RIP football.

21 Jun 2017 10:38:46
Great info ED. Looks to me like the adoption of a NFL/ Super rugby type format they seriously need to consider non relegation though as it would mean any team not within the top of the table towards the end of he season would have nothing to play for so their games would become irrelevant to them in essence a friendly. This is starting to happen in super rugby and has been going on for years in he NFL. Will be interesting to see what actually happens.

21 Jun 2017 11:37:11
Jeez ED. Its another step towards the Americanisation of the sport. Clubs will be richer but fans will not enjoy it. It will be strange because fans of clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Chelsea, Man UTD etc are used to seeing their clubs win titles in their domestic leagues now they will have to get used to seeing their club finish mid table.

As a result you may find that the best supported team in England could be Real or Barcelona perhaps as English fans who do not support any of the breakaway English teams would pick a foreign team to support instead. Chelsea may end up having more fans in Spain than England as Spanish non Real or Barcelona fans will also prefer to support a foreign team. Teams will become global and lose their grass roots identity.



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