Everton banter 41974


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21 Feb 2018 19:07:15
I amglad that the infighting on here seems to have calmed down and we seem to at last be getting on with supporting our great club. It is difficult when things are tough and some supporters (me included) can find it hard to see positives and can only see negatives. I would like to mention a couple of things that are not a dig at anyone but am just tring to show how things can be seen both ways. The first is Tosun. Apparently Chelsea were scouting him and their chief honcho has said we have got a very good player when he is up to Premiership speed. I have read some stuff about waste of money and Sam saying he won't play him. But it appears that he just needs to get up to speed. according to Chelsea. Another is Lookman. He chose to go to Germany and scored in his first game. Well that is great (him scoring) in my view. Gaining experience. But he was subbed next game and they were stuffed. So perhaps he is also not quite the finished article and maybe his attitude is not what is needed at our top level? Like I said, I amnot trying to stir another hornets nest. just point out that what initially appears a strong argument can sometimes turn around and be not what you expect. let's try and get behind our beloved Blues because it is easy to become hyper critical and then flippin difficult to become positive again. COYB.

Agree3 Disagree1

21 Feb 2018 19:40:15
Good post on the whole Degsy. Although when you say the infighting has stopped, not having a game this week may have quelled the posts.
Maybe some posters should get some warm weather training too or
Maybe it's the calm before the storm.

21 Feb 2018 20:13:54
Love it Smit666! I am off to Portugal 25th for my own warm weather training. should have wifi there tho so you can't stop me 100%. In all seriousness, I know its not all sweetness and roses, but let's just hope we have turned a corner and can start on looking up rather than down at the league table.

21 Feb 2018 20:26:17
Hear hear. Enjoy your warm weather, remember to stay lubricated in the heat. Don't get dehydrated 😉.

21 Feb 2018 22:56:08
The hype for Tosun was that he was the piece of the jigsaw that went missing when we unexpectedly sold Lukaku and failed to sign Giroud. He was not heralded as someone who neededto be brought up to speed. Having said that it seems a weird way to bring him up to Premiership speed by not playing him in the Premiership even when we are goals up late on in the game.

As for Lookman, footballer in "I want to play football rather than not even make the bench" scandal. He was substituted in the 85th minute.

22 Feb 2018 07:22:43
I get your points Glennk. I really do. But there are always 2 ways to look at a glass with water to the half way mark. We all know that. Ed002 callssome of us "toxics". That's because the glass is always half empty with some people. or rather that the club can do no right what so ever. eg Lookman wants to play football. the club think he is not ready for 1st team and allow him out on loan. so that's wrong. He gains experience and scores. that's wrong. He is substituted and their team get thumped. that's ok. because with us he wasn't given a chance. and he proved he is good with the goal last week. Do you see where I am coming from? Substitute the word Tosun. At 1st we don't sign a player. that's wrong. Then we do sign one. but don't play him immediately. that's wrong. just imagine that Chelsea and Everton are right and he is a good player. but not quite fit enough and we play him and get thumped. and he loses his confidence. would that be wrong too? Like I say there is always 2 ways to look at that glass (or indeed Everton) and once you are in a glass half empty mindset. its difficult to see positives when they are actually there. Even Ed025 (one of the guys who incidentally got me out of the half empty mindset a while back) is slipping into it (I await my telling off from him now) . but together, we can start chipping away at this horrible feeling we all get. Just think back 10 or so games ago. We were ALL despondant after the closed season where we signed all those lovely new players. but were then let down (as Evertonians often are) by a series of events and factors to the point most of us expected relegation this season. Well it is starting to look like we are putting the sqquad together that we all crave. Walcott is an amazing signing. Coleman is back. Baines will soon hopefully be back. and if not. Martina actually showed he might at last be understanding what is needed from him. Davies seems to be staking a claim for a place. Niasse seems to be also staking a claim. preventing Tosun being picked at the mo. This is at last some positive stuff compaared to 5 games in this season. Sig and Rooney seem to be finding their feet too. Pickford is blossoming. We are Everton and it has always been the same. A series of set backs. Depression. then it's just like the seasons. Spring arrives and some unknown kid breaks into the team. Winter is over mate. Take off the thermals. look at the sky outside. sorry if this sounds a little patronising. its not meant to. But we are Everton. You me, the bloke down the road. We are Everton. My 28 year old son said to me the other day. "Dad, my favourite song is WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED".
. I remember singing that when I was about 11 in the Lower Glwadys. WE SHALL NOT BE MOVED.

{Ed025's Note - good post that degsy, your right about me being negative lately and thats because this club has a way of grinding you down, sometimes a supporters frustration can get the better of them and as much as they want to be positive something will happen (like the arsenal game) that just destroys your faith, i want the club to succeed so much that its hard when i see players and staff that dont seem to care as much as i do, im intending to be as positive as i can until the end of the season mate and take it from there..

22 Feb 2018 08:07:48
As regards Lookman, the club do not KNOW that he is not ready for the first team. They JUDGE that he is not ready. They are entitled to make that judgment. The validity of that decision is about to be tested in Germany. It will enable us to make a more informed judgment of the club's managing and coaching set up.

As I have said previously, Tosun was hyped as the man that was going to give our attack teeth not as someone who was not ready to play. I said here before that I have always worried that the guy was being given a cross to bear rather than one to finish. I think to say that he may not be better than Niasse, brilliant attitude but not as brilliant skillwise, says everything you need to know.

22 Feb 2018 08:42:01
Glennk mate, I am sorry if I have branded you together with the negative lot. (that has included me at times and Ed025) . The 2 points that you raise here. you say the club do not know. but judge. Then you say that the validity of their judgement is about to be tested in Germany. I get that point. But you used that specific point in your original post as if that judgement was already completed. ie. you said he scores a goal. says it all. But it doesn't. that's my point. It says he scored a goal. that's not a run of games. Nor is it the whole game scenario. Its one goal and he did the same for us when he came on against Man City last season. I thought then (and still think now) that he might be ready soon. But from what I have seen in his overall play, he is not yet ready. yet you are using him as a point to prove all what is wrong at Everton. if I remember your original post you said "says it all". But it does not say it all. that's my point. It says he scored a single goal. Re Niasse and Tosun. Niasse in my view is a terrible footballer. But you cannot deny that he works his proverbials off. in a similar way to how Marcus Bent used to. Like the season we qualified for the Champions league with the worst goal difference ever if I remember correctly? Because Marcus Bent was a workhorse too. Now if Sam Allergy thinks that what we need right now is a grafter (who incidentally scores more goals than anyone else other that Rooney) then that is something I agree with. I wouldn't use the fact that Niasse is keeping Tosun out the team as a negative. I see that as a positive. Like I see Lookman playing for a top team and gaining experience as a positive. I have to say you seem to be in a mindset whereby EFC are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I don't mean that as a nasty criticism. what I am saying is that it is easy with Everton's history to get into that mindset. I also remember it just before we won away at Oxford Utd all those years ago. Perhaps it is our mentality? Or just the lap of the Gods? But mate, Spring is here. We have started to look a bit more secure. Rome was not built in a day. We all know we need more / better players. Let Moshiri/ Allergy get on with the job in hand and try and enjoy Spring. Its not all and gloom like it was 15 weeks ago. COYB.

22 Feb 2018 12:34:59
You have some good points Degsy but be careful you don't end up like a lot of posters. You're talking about Lookman a few times here and dismissing him after 1 start.

He scores as sub on his debut but the TEAM loses on his 1st start and he comes off as sub and you're almost saying it proves he needs to go out on loan. It's that negativity and dismissive nature sometimes that starts these wars on here not by you necessarily.

We seem to be a club that does this a lot. Ruddy, Dier and a host of others by Moyes were dismissed by the club. Koeman and Sam seem to be similar but then I suppose we don't see what's on the background.

For me with Lookman I see a young player that when coming off the bench makes a huge difference and when playing in an attack minded team thrives also. With Lennon gone I didn't see us being in a position to loan him out. I'd also rather he get used to our squad than someone else's if he is to be a regular and the games towards the end of this season as a chance to blood him.

22 Feb 2018 12:55:37
You can see where Glennk is coming from because some of the decisions have been baffling at times. Even I haven't been quite as optimistic as I would like be on occasions, but I have to agree with Degsyp. Considering how bad things have been and the dire straits we were in we aren't in that bad a position. Yes I know, before the ultra negative neanderthals start having a hissy fit, it's been awful to watch at times and we are still a long way away from what is acceptable for our club, but even they can't deny it's better than what it was.

22 Feb 2018 14:09:49
BJU I am not dissmissing Lookman at all. I am saying the squad of players is at a standard that would probably mean he gets part games at best. His positives are brilliant. like I already said. But he has negatives that come with youth. ie his attitude, his retentian of the ball, his ability to dissappear in a game. his choice of when to run with the ball and when to pass. So yes I agree that his potential is probably up there with the best. but if I was manager (which I am not. ) he would probably be sub at best. But that's not what this post started out as anyway. I was trying to use Lookman and Tosun as examples whereby you can look at things positively or negatively. I see both as positives. whereas some fans were saying Lookman is doing better elsewhere which shows we are rubbish at decision making? he is our player and we have allowed him to go and get experience. If he is bigger than the club (in his mind) then we don't want him. But I hope he has the mindset to gain experience, play brilliantly in Germany. whilst we keepadvancing as a club and when he comes back slots straight into our first team and scores bags of goals. Likewise I hope Tosun is brought into the team soon, replaces Niasse (who I also thinks works his socks off. although is not that brilliant. but a grafter) and also scores loads of goals. but I guess like some I could say now. what a waste of money Tosun was. We signed him and he doesn't even play. I hope this post puts it all to bed and we all cheer up a bit and get behind the Blues. COYB.

22 Feb 2018 17:44:10
Hey. We want to break the top six, can we do it with him as a starter? Probably not. Can we do it with him as a super sub? Possibly. Does he want to be a sub? Who knows, but if he doesn't then unfortunately he would have to move on.

22 Feb 2018 21:59:11
I think Sam is looking for the experienced players to get us through to safety which makes sense. I'm not sure what his track record is like on young players so I don't want to comment on that.

What I would say is that he will never have worked with the calibre of youngsters he has at Everton, ever. In fact not many managers will have done. We need him or whoever may take over to get these players developed and ready to eventually challenge the 1st teamers.

Our future looks so bright especially in the next 3 or 4 years when these players start to reach the levels and consistency that will make them contenders.

I just hope we don't alienate them by dismissing them and end up at our competitor's without being given a real chance.

22 Feb 2018 22:15:25
I guess so Smit666. The club is bigger than any player. But we need to make the club bigger and more attractive to those players who will bring success. Moshiri has that plan. Some of our supporters have been let down so many times that they find it hard to believe.

22 Feb 2018 22:50:28
I agree Degsy. i'm so positive for the next few years and think we can really give it a go. We've gone through a tough period but I'm hopeful that either with or without Sam the club will move forward.

I've never known us to have so much depth in the whole set up at the club. Minor adjustments are needed but they have to be the right ones. Not 3 no10s again!

23 Feb 2018 11:28:47
Crazy thing is 3 number 10's is fine. as long as you have 2 number 9's and a couple of number 3's. but to be missing cover in both of those positions after spending £120 mill is just daft. We don't always know reasons etc, but some contingency planning should have taken place. I guess that rests with Koeman / Walsh. Thank God we seem to have scraped through that and can now start rebuilding again. It was pretty close to the wheels falling off though eh?

23 Feb 2018 12:33:36
It was Degsy. I'm hoping if it's Sam staying or a new manager who comes in, they have more of a say in recruitment.

The Tosun deal is a little bit concerning as it looks like it was Moshiri who picked the lad. For me the manager should be the one choosing with the scouts and DOF THE players to go for.

I don't know enough about the process though to give a proper judgement. Each club is different I suppose.

23 Feb 2018 14:53:12
Tosun jury is still out for me. I thought he looked ok when first played. Apparently the Chelsea scout wanted him and rates him. and they have been pretty good identifying players of late. I say wait another 10 games at least before judging. A lot of managers say it is 50:50 as to whether a player fits straight into the premiership. and I know a lot of posters on here have said why pay £27 mill. but that's nothing in todays valuations and we have to accept that we paay more because we are not attracting Champions League players. Re him not starting yet. remember how poor Salah looked at Chelsea? Look at him now. He is a different player! I would want his passport checked. or his cornflakes!

23 Feb 2018 21:18:09
I like the look of Tosun but it's more the fact Moshiri has eyed him. If he's the one pushing signings then it might be the reason we signed some strange players.



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