01 Mar 2018 09:22:12
I remember many fans on here moaning about the brand of football we were playing in Moyes' last couple of years. Baines and Pienaar bombing down the left. Pienaar holding the ball up for the Baines' overlap. Baines whipping the ball in and Cahill meeting thecross with such power. On the other side, Osman doing the same for Seamus. I remember ine game whereby Baines crossed and it was Coleman at the far post who converted! Arteta would stroll around the middle and the only way the opposition could stop him was by hacking him down. We were just getting to challenge the top 4. Cup finals and semis were becoming one a season. Talk of Champions League was regular. Yet some folk didn't like Moyes. They said the team was boring. Moyes was too negative. I was not one of those supporters. Man Utd came hunting Moyes and the rest is now history. As the song goes, "If you know your history, it's enough to make your heart go whoa whoa whoa! ". My heart has whoaed a lot with successive managers and what I would do to have a Moyes team again. I loved his football, his signings. and so far everything since he has left (Lukaku aside) has been quite dreadful at this football club. I always said peopleshould not go back. but looking at how he has improved West Ham in such a short time. I would have him back in a heartbeat!
{Ed025's Note - you are suffering with selective memory degsy, the last few years with moyes was a drudge for me mate, yes there were good times in there but there was also a lot of dross, time had run its course and he left a couple of years too late imo, the way he left with no class or respect means he should never return and its ok to remember the good times but lest we forget the "knife to a gunfight" mentality he also brought and lets just look to the future rather than the past..
01 Mar 2018 10:00:17
I understand what you are saying Ed025. But as Evertonians, looking at our past is a pre-requisite seeing as we cannot look to the present with fondness. I honestly think that Moyes' last couple of years had us so close and people did not realise just how close we were. But yes I guess a new fresh manager must be the way to go.
{Ed025's Note - i think so degsy mate..
01 Mar 2018 10:25:19
You’d of thought we’d have won silverware if it was that good. But it wasn’t and we didn’t. We know are history and we didn’t win a sodding thing under Moyes. Yes some of the football was brilliant, but it was never really enough. And he would not ever get results at the top four teams.
His own mentality was one of the main causes we never won anything. Just watch the FA cup final back and where we spent 25 seconds attacking and the other 90 or so hoping a team as good as Chelsea wasn’t actually as good as Chelsea. It was an embarrassing cup final and showed Moyes fear of the bigger teams. I was gutted that day because we didn’t try to win. We just hoped Chelsea wouldn’t.
There were good times yes. But I would never wish for that again.
{Ed025's Note - im with you ace..
01 Mar 2018 10:52:06
The most impressive thing with Moyes was how he done what he done. With very little money. Not many mention that. Can't help compare it to Wenger at Arsenal. He doesn't get any praise with how he secured their future by being very prudent.
Moyes very similar. However, having Moyes back? Not sure as second spells rarely work. I adored Moyes but the way he left was disgusting. He burnt bus bridges really.
{Ed001's Note - he didn't spend very little money, that is a myth. During Moyes' time at Everton, you were the 5th highest spenders and had the 5th highest wage bill in the Premier League. He was far from over achieving on a small budget. He did what he should have, no more, no less.}
01 Mar 2018 11:40:47
I remember the semi final v Liverpool Jelavic scored early on then once again moyes gave in to the notion we were not good enough and we sat back and Liverpool beat us I then remember while still employed by EFC he tried to sign Baines and fellieni on the cheap saying things like if I was in charge I wouldn't be able to say no to a bid from a club the size of utd well guess what you did for 11 years the man lost all the love I had for him after the way he behaved when he left and it was poetic justice for his last game as utd boss to be a loss against us them to add the cherry on top the utd coach got blocked in outside the Winslow only for the pub to empty and your stuck with moyes songs to round out ha ha.
01 Mar 2018 11:38:15
Fair enough Ed001. I wholeheartedly respect your opinion and I'm not doubting those facts you just pointed out.
Did he not take in a lot of money from players sold? So his net spend would be very little? You probably know the facts about that more than me.
He did inherit an old aging team and turned them from relegation candidates to European challengers. I'd be very interested to see if the net spend is big. As I wasn't aware that Everton were 5th biggest spenders and 5th biggest wages in the premiership. On the face of it we got big money for some players which may explain why we were 5th biggest spenders.
I'm open to correction and realise it might not be the case as was with the other two points you make.
{Ed001's Note - I was referring to net spend. People forget the money was much less, so you look back and think Fellaini et al were cheap because you are comparing them to modern prices, rather than the prices at the time.
I really can't remember you earning much money from players sold, only really Rooney got you a big fee, most of the rest of his team were ageing players as I recollect. I could be wrong on that as things do get jumbled up when you have been spending so many years looking at so many things on these sites.}
01 Mar 2018 12:13:06
I agree Ed001. Different time, different prices. Lescott was another big money sale. Jeffers at that time 17-18 years was big too. Apart from that there was average priced players that left.
I take your point about the financial aspect Ed001. I try to be as fair as I can when looking at these things. I do admire what Moyes did as he inherited a mess and turned us into a very much improved side. Albeit not as impressive as I thought regarding the money. Thank you for putting that to me Ed001.
{Ed001's Note - he did do a very good job, so far as he went, his problem was he could not take the club on to the next level.}
01 Mar 2018 18:49:29
The football was good sometimes up to the 70th minute. Whether we were winning, losing or drawing Moyes would go defensive. It used to drive the fans absolutely crazy.
I remember against Norwich at home he made defensive changes and the boos around the stadium were deafening. We then consceded a goal and drew 1-1.
I've put this up before but Steven Naismith gave one of the most embarrassing statements of Moyes era when he said he'd never been at a club before were the tactics were to play for a draw. All the other teams played for the win.
I lost respect for Moyes that day. We're still in that mindset now.
It wasn't all bad and he brought stability to the club. However, he was so different to the managers I respected.
Moyes - Knife to a gun fight.
Kendall opens a window as inspiration. To remind everyone who they are playing for.
Royle takes a team told they are relegation favourites by the media, to an FA Cup final win. "Bollocks to your dream final" after thumping Spurs 4-1 in the semi he said.
The bottom two talked our language. The other one tried for 11 years to walk their walk but couldn't even talk like them.
01 Mar 2018 18:47:58
Ed001 . Both Moyes and Walter Smith acually made profits on buying and selling players overall. We may have been high wage payers. but players he sold for profit was re-invested in the squad and the cycle continued. I can't remember where I read this, but if you look at his record, it started off with the Rooney dosh going on a few. then he bought Arteta for £1.5 mill I think and Lescott for 4mill and Pienaar for around 2.5mill. Stones for next to nothing and a few more. I have no figures on wages. so cannot comment. Nigel Martyn was £400k. Coleman £60k. Alan Stubbs was a free. Oviedo £1.25 mill. Darren Gibson half a mill. Dan Gosling £1mill. Kilbaane £1mill. Naismith free. Bent £450k. Saha nominal fee. We sold Rooney 23 mill/ Lescott 25 mill, Stones 50 mill (but might have been post Moyes? ) Arteta £8.5 mill. Yes somewhere I read the sums and we actually made profit in both Walter Smith's and Moyes reigns.
{Ed001's Note - sorry but you are wrong and fail to understand the financial realities of transfers. I hear this said about Rafael Benitez as well and it is simply not true. In terms of bare transfer fees alone, yes it is true, but it fails to take into account any of the other associated costs. There are many, not just agent fees, but players getting a 5% cut of the transfer fee, solicitors' fees and the cost of payments, which are usually paid via short term loans from financial institutions which specialise in this area and make a significant amount of money in interest. This is why we editors hate discussing money because none of you actually see the full picture. You need to stop reading tabloids and believing their bull.}
01 Mar 2018 21:07:34
Ah Degsy I thought I had woke up 6-7 years ago when I read your post. Are you still going on about Moyes And Osman. Leon Osman was a luxury player (average at best) who was good when we were on top but useless against the better sides. As for Moyes he did a good job at us but his time had come and he left in a cloud of smoke and mirrors. If we were so good then how come we’ve no trophies and cup finals every year you say? We had one FA cup final in 11years, we lost!
Do you think the Liverpool fans chanted 10 more years of Moyes because we were challenging every year for Cups and Champions league 😂.
02 Mar 2018 06:57:56
Stones sale was Martinez I think.
Did we even get anything for Arteta?
I did appreciate what moyes did for us but I will always remember the frustration with his constant negative substitutions. That is mostly to blame for our long losing streaks against the big clubs.
02 Mar 2018 09:18:23
The myth of Moyes:
0203 Bought 12.3M Sold 340K
0304 Bought 9M Sold 875K
0405 Bought 10.5M Sold 40.9M
0506 Bought 29.3M Sold 6.3M
0607 Bought 16.1M Sold 2.2M
0708 Bought 33.8M Sold 14.2M
0809 Bought 22.5M Sold 12M
0910 Bought 21M Sold 25.5M
1011 Bought 1.6M Sold 6M
1112 Bought 6.5M Sold 24M
1213 Bought 19.5M Sold 16.8M
Total Bought 182.1M Sold 149.115.
02 Mar 2018 12:02:02
Thanks BJU impressive stats dug out. Although I don't remember where I read my point on net spend. it was not from the tabloids. Using BJU's figures above. that equates to a net spend of £31 mill in my maths. Over 11 years. That's a net spend of £3 mill per year. That surely cannot be 5th highest spend in the Premiership over that time period? And I don't think you can include players payments because they are calculated as a percentage. maybe egents fees. but as far as I read. Everton were poor at agent fees as well. or good (whichever way you like to look at it) . Either way, we are way down the list of net spend over that 11 years. And comment re Osman. I was really talking about the whole philosophy od Eferton attacking down the wings with overlapping full backs. Something which we saw when Seamus played his first game after injury.
#.
{Ed002's Note - As I have said before, ignore the finances. This is embarrassing to read when you only take in to account some basic information.}
02 Mar 2018 13:08:02
Yep your right ED. This is just the mentioned fees. So much behind all the figures. I don't even worry about the finances as what's the point.
This was more to illustrate that even the basic transfer figures everyone talked about that Moyes was in the black was utter tosh. When you add in all the other stuff we haven't got a clue about the difference would be even greater.
02 Mar 2018 13:26:24
Sorry Ed002.but my post was partly about finances. so I can't really ignore finances! I accept what you say about wages. and solicitors fees etc. but the basic transfer fees published equated to £31mill net over 11 years. That's all I was saying. I bow to your knowledge on add ons etc.
02 Mar 2018 13:57:57
What you talking about Ed, it's the Jim White school of NET SPEND. 🤣.