25 Mar 2018 03:22:51
1.Sam has saved us from regation. He has bought two decent players.3 With the exception of Pickford and Sigudsun, Koeman spent a fortune on crap.4 If he can out run the sam haters for the summers and next season starts with 8 wins from the first 10, there will be no problem getting the vast majoriy right behind him, yes even if its 8 1-0s and 2 0-0s.
{Ed001's Note - I don't get this 1. Everton were already turned around before Allardyce got the job. Results and form had improved and were on an upward curve. You were no longer looking like a team in a relegation battle until he arrived and kept claiming you were.}
25 Mar 2018 07:13:50
Name one game we've played really well under Sam. The only games we've won are expected. Ed 1 right there all he's done is go on about a relegation battle and how he's stopping it. He should of come in saying we want to finish top 7. He's set low standards so he can meet expectations.
25 Mar 2018 08:10:58
ha ha Sam saved us from relegation we where 13th in the league when he took over it was Unsworth who took over when we where at our lowest point and it was Unsworth who slowly turned it around Sam took over at just the right time after a 4-0 win over West ham and Sam has even tried claiming that victory as his own Sam will go down as nothing but a stain on our proud history.
25 Mar 2018 08:41:41
Ed001 whilst I am not a Sam Allardyce addict. and I am now at the point I think he probably does have to go because of the way the fans are split. your facts or opinions are not quite accurate. It is true that we beat West Ham 4 nil in the game prior to Sam starting. Sam joined the end of November. and in the November fixtures prior to that, we lost 3, won 1 and drew 1. In October, we had won none, lost 5 and drew 1. In September, we had won 2, drew 1 and lost 3. In that lot there were the Europa League games against Atalanta, Limasol, Hajduk Split and Apallon Limassol. So not what you would call "top" opposition. That equals 11 losses, 3 draws and 3 wins. That is 12 points from a potential 51 points. I really don't think that is a good return from those games. I accept that we played Chelsea, Spurs etc in those games, but 12 from 51 is not "turned the corner". I think we were in a relegation battle and the fact in that run we lost to Limassol, Lyon, Burnley at home, Southampton 4-1 and Atalanta 5 -1 at home just says we were struggling. I think for all of Sam's problems. which I agree he has some. Koeman had got us in a mess. after spending huge amounts of money on players who are now rotting on the bench or even not playing at all.
{Ed001's Note - you going back way too far and overthinking things. Forget Koeman, his time was irrelevant to this. It is whether or not Unsworth had an effect or not that matters and it is clear he had done so. The issue was that the board panicked, thought Unsworth wasn't doing anything because the turnaround was not immediate and pressed the self destruct button. Unsworth had clearly turned things around and got the performance level up and results would have come under him. You did not need someone to rescue you from relegation, you were not going down under Unsworth anyway. In fact, I personally believe Unsworth would have done at least as good a job, pointswise, as Allardyce.
I know Sam tries to take the credit for everything, including being the saviour, but what has he actually done? Brought two players in?? Not his job and neither were anything to do with him. He made it plain what he thought of Tosun with his disparaging remarks about the lad after he arrived, so he could point the finger of blame elsewhere if the player didn't adjust. Has he won points that the team would not have expected to win under Unsworth? Again no, if anything I think Unsworth could have picked up more by having a bit of ambition for the club and wanting to pick up points on your travels.
I know you are all rewriting history to claim this team is actually full of crap players who aren't good enough, but in the summer you all thought they were good enough to challenge the top 4, some even thought a title shot was possible. So to suggest it is suddenly a terrible squad is ridiculous. The one thing that has been terrible was the mismanagement of Koeman and Allardyce has just managed expectations to try and make everyone believe he is overachieving, like his nonsense about how he overachieved with 'little old Bolton on a shoestring'. People seem to forget how he did not manage on a shoestring, which is why the club ended up in financial difficulties. It was because he overspent, not because he managed on their limited budget.
Everton have a good squad, which lacked an out and out goalscorer and a left back, when the season kicked off. Nothing insurmountable as very few teams in the Prem have a top class striker who notches significant goal returns but they are still managing to get in the top half. This season has been a failing that Allardyce has played on to make people think he has achieved something, when in fact his only achievement throughout his career has been to get people believing he has been successful against the odds. This is the man who said he would win everything if he had a good team, well he has one and he is showing no signs of fulfilling his boasts.}
25 Mar 2018 09:34:47
ED01 I couldn't agree more with what you have said the only thing I want to come out this mess is that Moshiri learns from his mistakes that's all we as fans can hope for.
25 Mar 2018 10:27:30
Wow ED001.Thank you. aproper debate. and not the insults that I have been getting. and I agree with a lot of your points. but I also have a slightly different view on a couple. the fist one is that we have (or should I say had) a good squad. That bit I disagree. I agree 100% with you that the squad has good players. but in previous posts I have pointed out that we have 3 defenders who are still our best defenders left over from Moyes' days. ie Baines, Coleman and Jags. Jags is still our best central defender at 35. Baines is 33. We have no left footed cover for Baines at all. Both are likely to suffer injuries at that age. little niggles and pulls. Neither will go on forever. We played Martina at left back when Baines was injured because the alternative was one of the kids. When Coleman got injured we played Kenny at 20.He made repeated mistakes that led to goals. Martina who could not get in the team at Southampton and was released covered initially at RB and then at LB. He also made repeated mistakes that led to goals. He was not great at RB so to cover at LB was admirable but not ideal. When successive managers picked Williams and Keane together. they both made repeated mistakes. Ashley Williams was never the most mobile of players and at also 33 has slowed down a bit. So our main defenders in the squad are a couple of kids who are prone to mistakes and one left footer and 3 aged 33 or over. That to me reeks of no balance and certainly no forward planning over the last few seasons. There is a lack of players in their prime. Yes there are great youngsters with potential for the future and yes there are players with class coming to the end of their careers. but only Keane in the right age group. I agree with you 100% that Unsworth had started to show that he had indeed started toturn around the players and make decisions that would take us forward. I have no doubt that if he had been given the opportunity we would probably be in a similar position to where we are now. I also agree that Sam takes credit when he can and avoids responsibility when it suits him. I agree 100% that we as fans expected too much. I agree 100% that we lacked a center forward of any decency and a left back. And as I am back on the squad. we signed what a lot of people call number 10'S. Rooney, Sigs, Klaasen, even Vlasic has played that position, Shneiderlin. so we cannot pick all of these. especially when you consider we have Davies and Gueye as other midfield alternatives. I rate Davies and it is only his age that is against him at the mo. I would expect other clubs to be after him if not already. the lad has great potential. Back to the squad. I am not 100% sure but I believe that Baines is our only left footed player. so when he was injured we had right footers in every position. Whilst you may get away with a player here and there playing with "the wrong" foot. overall you need some balance. That is why I said the squad is poor. We have a couple of poor players, a load of kids, a load of ageing players and only one left footer. Individually they may all be decent players, but the balance is wrong. Too much reliance on youngsters, too much reliance on older players, insufficient players with natural left foot ability, players missing in 2 key positions and too many players who can play in the same position. and one player who really is just not good enough as much as I would love him to be. That in my view is not a good squad. I suspect we were trying to get Barkley cover and ended up with too much. never anticipated Baines and Coleman being out injured at the same time. didn't try hard enough for a center forward and expected Keane to be able to just come straight in and perform at the levels he did for Burnley last season. I also expect we never thought we would need Martina to cover the amount of games he actually did. but that goes back to my point about relying on older players that although great. will pick up niggles here and there and may also get a double fracture asany player can. but we should have had better cover. Next season we will need new players to replace Baines and Jags and Williams for sure. None of these will be Premiership players next season. Hope that explains my views and thanks for a proper debate Ed001.
{Ed001's Note - I fail to see a problem with using kids though. What is the point of having an academy if you don't use the youth team?
I know there is a lot more than that to answer in your post, but I think that is the key issue. If you look at Southampton, for example, they never struggled when they turned to the youth team for cover.
There is a problem with the balance of the squad, but you can say that about every team. Man City only had one left back, who picked up a long term injury. Liverpool only had one right back, who has not played all season, instead they use a youth centre back and youth midfielder to cover the position. I could go on and on with every team, including Man Utd who play wingers at full back, but I think the point is clear, the issue is that Everton have managed their problems in a way that made the gaps in the squad bigger, rather than found ways to make them seem less of an issue.}
25 Mar 2018 10:54:23
I ddont want a ping pong thing and accept most of your points. I would just say an over reliance on kids and oldies and not enough in their prime. Like an over reliance on right footers. and not enough left footers. Our initial debate was that people were saying we had a poor/ crap squad and the rest we pretty much agreed on. I just wanted to say that I was NOT saying we had crap players (well maybe one. but even he gives 100%) . I was saying the squad was poor because of balance. no left back, no center forward/ goalscorer, too many kids and too many oldies. not enough in key positions playing at the peaks of their careers. that's all. I do get your points about other clubs too. but in my humble opinion. there is just too much imbalance in the Everton squad. and I won't even mention Pickford's reluctance to come off his line because I know you will agree! lol.
25 Mar 2018 10:56:35
To be fair to Koeman he did have a run of 10 games last season where we drew 4 and lost 6. He then turned it around and finished 7th. The board only gave him 9 prem games this season of which he won 1 and drew 2, which is actually a better points return than the run of 10 games last season. Looking at it that way, the fans and board were probably too hasty.