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02 May 2018 10:28:05
Little stat just been picked up on, if we are to seriously challenge top 4 this stat tells us how close Sam has and would get us to that. When SA took over we were 12 points behind 4th and 10 points behind 6th with us being 7 points clear of safety. As it stands today we are 23 points behind 4th, 9 points behind 6th and 16 points clear of safety.
What this highlights is how much better the teams in the top 6 are and how poor the teams below us really are.
We were never in danger of falling in the trap but never adventurous enough to challenge those above, this is mediocrity and I don't want another season of this.

Agree3 Disagree6

02 May 2018 10:44:01
We will not be a top six club until we can win against the top clubs. Our record against them is dismal and will only continue that way under Allardyce.

02 May 2018 10:51:31
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Who knows what would have happened if Koeman stayed on or Unsworth took over? Fact is we are going to finish 8th or 9th. How many predicted that on the survey that was carried out on here before the new year?

02 May 2018 12:48:31
What it highlights to me is how important Baines, Coleman and Jags are to the first team. but they are getting older. We have no immediate replacements and that should be our priority whoever is in charge! . and should have been our priority the last 3 seasons or so.

02 May 2018 13:41:08
Not sure we haven't been trying, Kenny looks a great understudy to Coleman who is in his prime. The club has tried a fair few of the youngsters trying to find a replacement for Baines but they haven't been good enough. Keene was bought to replace Jags or Williams. Its a really difficult one trying to bring in players that are happy to play second fiddle to the incumbent but then being good enough to perform when required. I thought Oviedo was great cover for Baines while he was at the club. Alternatively you could go for a straight replacement. But I do agree we need to look at cover. I would also like a more defensive left mid so we have more tactical options available.

02 May 2018 15:16:07
I've been hearing good sounds about Antonee Robinson on loan at Bolton. I've got a couple of mates who are fans of the trotters and they say he's one of the only pluses to an otherwise average season. Maybe he'll come in and occupy the LB position. Whoever takes that role has some very high standards to live up to.

02 May 2018 15:24:07
The young lads won't get a look in under SA. May aswell loan all of our first team young lads out until they are are 23 24.

02 May 2018 16:59:51
Not sure about that DCL Davies Vlasic Beni Kenny have all played for SA.

02 May 2018 17:51:46
DCl barely. Vlasic not given a hance instead yanik for some strange reason. Sneiderlin pickdd constantly while being crap apart from last couple of games. You think beni Nd davies would get game time next seazon. Kenny has through injury to Coleman leaving no other option. SA would sign experienced players to play instead of involving these. He values experience as much as he values defending at all costs. We have been dreadful in terms of wingers and still no vlasic or lookman.

02 May 2018 18:20:03
We don't need to look for cover for these positions we need to look for competitiveness for positions.

Allardyce will only ever do what is good for his agenda, he isn't interested in building for the future by nurturing the kids and progressing them. Even at Bolton he always signed experience. Look at Dyche, he put his transfer kitty into the training facilities because he bought into the long term aims of the club.
Now I'm not saying we should go and get Dyche or put our transfer kitty into other things but we do need a manager with that kind of philosophy.

02 May 2018 21:15:22
Dont rate Walcott much then Blue-tit, also given the option wouldn't most manager sign experienced players and what's wrong with that. Most managers only play youth when they have too or the player is exceptional SA is no different than any other manager in that regard. I would be happy with Dyche Smit666 I think he would be great fit for us.

02 May 2018 21:47:28
As usual, I make a point that starts a whole load of new debates. Smit666 is the only one who has got what I meant (although I don't agree with all of his post) . the bit I agree with is that the 3 older players of Jags, Baines and Coleman are head and shoulders above Kenny, Keane or anyone else in the squad in their respective positions.

We have tried over may seasons to replace them but when the 3 of them were out at the beginning of the season, we were in the bottom 3! Nothing to do with coaches or managers. it was because we still rely on a 35 year old as club captain, a 33 year old left back and a 29 and a half year old right back who are still miles better than anyone else at the club. This should have been dealt with by every manager since Moyes and has not been.

Blame Koeman, blame Unsworth, blame Allardyce, blame whoever. the club has had years to deal with it. Kenny is not good enough yet. Keane was signed and probably not good enough. Martina is woeful. Malinga was on loan. Williams has aged at the same rate and is 33. Funes Mori was potentially ok but got injured.

Our defence is the same as 10 years ago with no challengers for the 3 positions I mention. Holgate showed promise but again. not ready quite yet. All talk about managers now is irrelevant in my view. The club could have and should have dealt with this years ago.

02 May 2018 21:51:25
I have a concern about his away form last season and his home form this season. I wouldn't be totally against it but definitely not my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice.
Dunno, he could be awesome and / or rubbish.

02 May 2018 23:41:46
degsyp I agree there is a problem with aging defenders but the club has made efforts in trying to address the situation in parts at least. Kenny, Keene and Holgate are all good players that will get better with age. If you think about when Jags and Baines were bought they where in there early mid twentys even then it took them about a season to become 1st team regulars.

Coleman didn't really start playing well until he had been at the club for at least three years. IMO the club have tried to use youth to fill the void and it hasn't really worked Stones came through but we sold him, he would have a good replacement for Jags if he had stayed. The potential is there at RB and CD in Kenny, Holgate and Keene. I do agree about LB though we need an addition ASAP. What I would say is that up until Moyes left there was more competition for places in the back four than there is now. 10 years ago we had Hibbert Jags Neville Yobo Lescott Baines Valente all fighting for a slot.

03 May 2018 00:57:58
Can't argue with that Degsy, Jags Seamus and Baines are by far our best defenders still, and it should have been addressed years ago.
The 3 of them have stabilised our defence since they've been back together.

As for Dyche Smit, I think he needs to prove himself next season now that Burnley are in a strong position, before we jump the gun. It took him a while to build that team and he hasn't shown he can take them to the next level yet (attacking wise) .

There's a lot of available managers this summer and not enough teams looking for replacements so I think we need to see how things pan out and get the best we can and start the 'project' again next season.

03 May 2018 11:07:31
Well I am not convinced with Kenny. doesn't seem strong enough. Williams has lost it. Not sure about Mori. Mangala back to City. Martina very poor. Holgate? maybe. Keane not sure but not seen anything yet. Holgate. maybe. So in my view the old 3 are best by a mile with maybe one or 2 challenging them. that's just not good enough for a squad that should be looking to challenge. My original point was that whoever is manager, that defensive "part of the squad" is just not good nor deep enough and next season will be worst with Baines 34 and Jags 36. The whole club is to blame whoever is the manager and our first 10 games of the season showed exactly why we were so poor without these players and even with them back, we are still poor because 2 of them are past it and the captain is doing miracles to keep going. I can categorically state that no top 4 team would have 3 players in defence over 30 years old as their regular defenders!

03 May 2018 15:45:14
I agree with 99% of your post desyp still think kenny will come good given time though.

03 May 2018 18:20:00
SA has played them out of neccessity and I fear he would freeze our young players out and wouldn't give them the right platform to develop. I do rate walcott and there are two wings mate. Before walcott coming he wanted nothing to do with lookman. We have a great set of young players and need to help them grow and develop and I don't think SA would do that as he loves experience and hates risks. We need a long term plan not living year to year. Plus SA's style is not the best for young attacking or creative players. he's done a job fair play but that job is done for me. Like I said thank him, pay him and wish him good luck. Domt like the guy in anyway but he has earned his cheque but that doesn't detract from the poits I made. Plus he does not protect players which is bad for the young lads.

03 May 2018 20:03:03
Degsy, Chelsea last season won the prem with Luiz cahill and Terry rotating in their back 3/ 4 and they're all over 30. Terry being 106.

03 May 2018 20:09:59
Leicester when they won the league also had a back four of huth, Morgan and Fuchs who must be getting on a bit.

03 May 2018 22:14:21
Smit666 Luiz was 30 last season, Cahill 31 and they had Zouma aged 23 and Zappacosta 23 and Azpilaqueta aged about 25 too. Whilst I agree its not the youngest defence, its still younger than the defence we have at the moment. I would guess they will sign some defenders this closed season and get some younger ones in that will be at their peaks. I get your point, but Jags will be 36 and Baines 34 next season. those 3/ 4 years of being older makes all the difference when going for top 4 which is where this thread started. Likewise Huth was 31, Morgan 32 and Fuchs 30 when Leicester won the league and look at them now 2 years on.

03 May 2018 23:01:16
I see what you're saying Degsy but I think the defensive positions can afford to have experience over youth. Granted I agree ours are too old but I would say when jags has been fit last and this season, he has still been in the top 10 CB in this league. Holgate is our bright spark but can Keane be trusted with him? I don't think so. We need at least 2 quality CB this summer and let Williams go and retire jags to the coaching staff. Keane can stay or leave for me.



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