Everton Banter Archive April 22 2015

 

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22 Apr 2015 17:05:18
It used to be said - or so I heard - that a footballer joined a club for one of two reasons: to win medals or to get big wages (and hopefully for both reasons at the most successful clubs).
Nowadays, I'd contend that playing Champions League football is regarded by players as being as good as actually winning medals. As for wages, the amount of money (from TV, etc.) that's sloshing about the game - plus the agents screwing the clubs for every last pound - means that even mediocre journeyman players are getting tens of thousands per week, while the "superstars" are on six-figures a week.
Since we're not offering Champions League football AND since we can't pay the really massive wages - due to Financial Fair Play and/or the club's own financial prudence (?) - I just don't see us attracting (and certainly don't see us retaining) the best players once the "bigger" (i.e. Champions League) clubs start taking an interest in them. I'm steeling myself for the likes of Barkley, Stones, McCarthy, etc., etc., to be moved on - not for financial reasons, although we'll make money on any transfer dealings, but because the players will want their Champions League (and other trophy) ambitions satisfied - and we sure as heck don't look like doing that based on this season!
:-(

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23 Apr 2015 09:30:49
The Stones situation is a big worry for me Cowpat. He is undoubtedly the best young center back around and will be monitored by all the top European clubs. All our other center backs are nearing retirement and I posted last year about this. Swan put on a great post recently that mirrored my original one (which was slated for being negative for some reason?). Distin, Alcaraz and even Jags are either past it or have at best 1 more season between them. If Barca or Real Madrid come in for Stones, we are down to youth players for the corner stone positions in any team. We have aging players throughout the squad and the signings of Barry, Alcaraz and Kone were very short sighted. This is the spine of the team we are talking about and no team can be rebuilt in such a big scale without consequenses. Every team that is rebuilt takes at least half a season to gel. It worries me that next season or the season after we will need to have 8,9 or 10 new players coming in trying to gel. I fear we will regret big time not signing 3 young players last season. We are in a very vulnerable position right now and the next 12 months will define our next few seasons. I fear RM will continue bringing in 29 year olds or even older. And we will pay in the long run. I know people will say here he goes.Moyes mentioning again, but at least with Moyes, he brought all these players in as youngsters and we have benefitted from this for the last 6 or 7 years. Coleman, Jags, Baines, Osman, Pianaar and many others were brought in as relative youngsters and have been the rock of our club. Next 12 months will be key.

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23 Apr 2015 13:35:01
I posted a few weeks ago that the age of the squad should be evenly spread over the playing age range say 18 years to 34. With only one or at most two players being at the same age. That way when someone hits 33 years of age there normally would be only one or two to replace annually. This way keeps some continuity in the playing squad and hopefully avoids this old excuse that they need time to settle etc. Unfortunately Martinez with I assume Kenwrights approval has brought in Alcaraz, Barry, Kone. All ready for replacing plus Distinct, Howard etc, which means half the team to replace at the same time with limited funds. By adopting and continuing with this policy Everton FC will continue to be out of the top 4 and maybe top 6. It is only a short term quick fix policy and not long term planning. Of course Martinez probably doesn't intend staying long term and will be off when better offer comes along hence not investing in the future. By needing to replace say 6 players at once with limited funding means only cheap or free transfers can be negotiated, which also means lower quality. Unfortunately Kenwright, Martinez want to shop at Harrodsburg but only pay Poundland prices. It is a recipe for survival but not for success. Man U, Arsenal and that other lot went for years only replacing maybe 2players each seasons, hence the reason for their success. They also had better managers than Everton have at the moment.
As for next season, top 8 finish and a Wembley visit to WIN the FA Cup. After all Martinez has the experience to do that.
Now you've got an ageing squad with very few young legs to do the running. Get Benteke in to share with Lukaku, another decent centre half, to partner Stones. move Jags to replace Barry. I may be wrong on this regarding Jags but I seem to think when at Sheffield United he played midfield. If I am wrong I apologise.

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23 Apr 2015 15:37:10
Jagielka in midfield? You want to play ohil jagielka, in, midfield? Okay, anything else? Maybe get howard on the right wing, mccarthy left back and kone in goal?.

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23 Apr 2015 18:39:18
Yes Jags played in midfield and was played there by Moyes when he first signed and he was awful so sorry moving Jags further upfield is a recipe for disaster imo.

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23 Apr 2015 19:33:28
I hear all of you but you can also look at things this way;
Howard

Coleman. Stones. Jags. Gar but

Basic

Barkley. McCarthy

Mirallas. New left winger

Lusaka

That is a young vibrant team with no midweek commitments next season. With some experience in Barry, pienaar Barnes etc for cover. We need to hold on to what we have, buy a left winger and a centre back and another player who can play across the front three. It's not that drastic what is sad is that our moron of a manager will play the older players again so the pace to our game is pedestrian and we get over run, again

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24 Apr 2015 08:43:32
In my opinion the answer is to revert the policy back to the Moyes era. ie scour the lower leagues for promising young players. Championship and League 1 clubs have quality youngsters coming through. Also every season when 3 clubs are relegated, there is at least 2 or 3 young quality players going down with these clubs. They are desperate to play in the Premiership and we have had some success in identifying these players. Most are British which also helps in the dressing room. I believe this policy is better than giving lucrative contracts to 30 year old journey men players such as Barry, Kone and Alcaraz. I will always argue that selling Anichebe and paying good money for Kone was just bad business.certain posters will argue that one with me until they are blue in the face.but I would guess Kone has cost us a few million quid for a few minutes playing time with no goals. We already had Anichebe and if we had kept him, he would have probably scored a few goals with lower wages and no signing on fee. And he would still now have a sell on value. Yes Kone had a bad injury, but even if Anichebe had suffered the same injury, he would still be the age he is with another 4 or 5 seasons left in him and therefore a sell on value. Kone has no sell on value now. Barry has no sell on value now. Alcaraz has no sell on value now. They were all quick fixes with a detrimental effect on the long term strategy of the club. What people forget is that whilst they did play a part in last season (Well Barry did) the rest of the squad also aged. So as well as those 3 players, we also have Howard, Jags, Distin, Osman, Pienaar, Hibbert and Gibson all close to retiring. That's 10 players. Far too many to go at once. We have also signed McGeady at 29 years old and we are looking at Lennon at 27 years old. These are wingers who rely on pace. They both have at most 2 seasons left in them. And 1 of them is probably not good enough anyway. The whole policy seems barmy to me and I said so at the beginning of last season. We need the policy of youth from lower leagues again.

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24 Apr 2015 11:38:02
Lusaka? didn't I have that for my tea on holiday in Greece.

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24 Apr 2015 11:47:33
I don't have any problems with Martinez in the transfer market and when he has to spend big money it's always a good buy.

Barry, Del Boy and Lennon were good loan deals.

As free transfers go Barry hasn't been as good as last season but for nowt he hasn't been a total disaster. Alcaraz has been poor and McGeady isn't up to standard but they are free and there is usually a reason for that.

Kone could have contributed more but for his injury and was bought for relative peanuts on today's prices and Besic could turn out to be a bargain in the same bracket as Coleman if he continues to develop.

As for his big two signings Lukaku if sold now would still yield a profit and McCarthy would be over the £25 mil mark.

As for the age of the squad I'm not worried at all. We have no Europe next season and will be buying a few players in the summer so the numbers can fall a bit and really hurt us.

If anyone goes it will be for good money if it's one of the younger players and if it's one of the older it's one less older player that we probably can do without.

We do need another CB and two wingers and if we have a couple of bob left over another back-up striker. I would though rather see a few younger players given a chance with Green, Long, McAleaney, Ledson, Galloway, Dowell, Kenny and Browning pushed on and forget about us loaning players in like Atsu.

If there is no-one there as good as Atsu then we may as well scrap the thing.

Before you say Martinez this and that, I didn't say I trusted him with the players - just the money!

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24 Apr 2015 12:09:51
@Degsy - Anichebe has scored 11 goals in 3 seasons. Kone has been injured for 1 1/2 seasons and scored 12. It was an injury we couldn't have foreseen that has stopped him from adding to that so I wouldn't be too critical of that acquisition.

Victor has only scored 2 goals this season, 1 more than Kone and we also got 6 mil for him which stunned me as he wasn't even worth that.

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24 Apr 2015 12:19:43
I agree with you BlueJohbUns about McCarthy and Besic being excellent signings. In fact if we had more like this (age wise) we would not be in the sticky situation I predicted. Barry as a loan was also good. But from my understanding, we agreed that if we signed him he would cost 4 million and we ended up paying that. His wages were also really high. The other problem with senior aging players is that they do have injury history usually. A young player often recovers. Whereas an older player often does not recover. Then he is just a wage drainer. Kone is a classic example. Ok Anichebe had injuries but his wages I would guess were half of Kones. Alcaraz is another example. Always injured. Has lost what little pace he used to have. I know people can quote players such as Peter Beardsley as great older signings, but these are few and far between. I won't post any more on this one because its turning into another Osman type debate but in my opinion, youth in football is the way to go.with the odd senior player to act as a captain and mentor. To fill a squad with older players is very short turn and the consequences are obvious.

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24 Apr 2015 20:12:26
12 goals for us? No 1 goal for us and 11 for Wigan. Yes his injury was awful. But you are missing my point. I am not debating the qualities player. I am saying that as a business transaction it is pee poor. I will try and give an example of what I mean. It is like owning a ford escort that is only 3 years old. It functions well and is reliable, never let's you down and in 3 years time will still be running and worth about half of what it is worth now. It is like part exchanging this reliable but boring ford escort and paying for a ford Mondeo 2 litre that is 15 years old and has 250k on the clock. It is likely to be a better car, but you have to pay extra. You may find it breaks down all the time and in 12 months will be worth next to nothing. I would always stick with the reliable, functional newer escort with lower mileage.

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24 Apr 2015 21:28:48
Sorry to bang on at u degs but u keep going on about all our old players most of which moyes left Martinez has made six really good young signings in Robles Galloway besic McCarthy lukaku henen some of which r world class IMO Barry for me was a great signing good player with great experience came cheap Kone unfortunate injury mcgeady not really good enough but free Alcarez free pretty good signings IMO really good loans so far in deulofeu Lennon all in all transfers have bin really good few additions this summer and some of the younger lads stepping up for me I don't really see any problems with age starting eleven next season if u like Robles Coleman stones jags garbutt McCarthy besic mirallas Barkley Lennon lukaku doesn't get any younger than that with youth stepping up and three or four new signings your way off the mark not for the first time either might I add :)

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25 Apr 2015 09:45:33
I can't agree Cobyone.but I guess football I all about opinions. Time will tell and we will all see what happens. All I will say is that I started to harp on about this last season. and I will add that out of your list of good young signings I would agree that Besic, McCarthy and Lukaku have been good signings. I think Robles might turn out to be a good signing and Galloway and Henen I really know nothing about.you might be absolutely correct? I don't know yet. My problem is 2 fold. the average age of the squad has gone upwards dramatically and there is a core that will be retiring soon. The other problem I have harped on about is that RM signs players who do not score many goals (Lukaku aside). Like I say, I respect your opinion and I may be totally wrong. Time will tell. Look at my posts in a years time and I will either be eating humble pie or going on again like I do. LOL

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25 Apr 2015 16:23:57
Eating humble pie I reckon degs :)

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22 Apr 2015 16:19:58
Ed any truth that......

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{Ed002's Note - Sorry, we are not going there.}

22 Apr 2015 11:57:41
Anyone agree that we'll qualify for champions league next year?

Thanks

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22 Apr 2015 14:11:57
Can I please have a double helping of what Mike is on immediately

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22 Apr 2015 14:40:17
Champions league is a bit far fetched, without the "distraction" of european football next season we might be able to have a crack at top 6 again. Obviously we'd need to find last seasons form again.

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22 Apr 2015 14:53:30
No, we will finish 10th

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22 Apr 2015 16:29:58
I think that top-half finishes are where we're likely to be for a while, but even that will be challenging since there are several other clubs now realistically competing for those 5th through 10th positions. It would surely take a major upset (e.g. dramatic loss of form or a horrendous injury list) for one of the usual contenders for top 4 to fail to make those Champions League places and let one of the "smaller" (aka "unfashionable") clubs into their cosy little money-hogging group.
A decent cup run - maybe even a win (!) - shouldn't be beyond us, but we always seem to bottle it.
And underlying all of this, will be the loss of our best players - whether homegrown, or gems we've plucked from the lower domestic leagues or the "lesser" European leagues, or youngsters not getting first team football at other "bigger" clubs that we can offer - as they prove themselves for us and then want (demand) Champions League football. Thanks to the TV money, we may not have to transfer players for financial reasons anymore, but the footballing reasons for transfers might now be down more to a player's ambition than the club's own wishes and plans.
Goodness knows where English football will be if (when?) the TV money bubble bursts and/or the players (and especially their agents) have bled the game dry.
Moan, moan - whinge, whinge - Ho, Hum!
:-)

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22 Apr 2015 22:34:25
Spot on Sid,one day football across the globe will collapse when the TV money goes, by that I mean the ridiculous amounts paid for the EPL, european tournaments and World Cup. The money men at sky etc will eventually say enough is enough like BBC did.Can anyone say they have had value for money this season, how many great games have we had in the premierhip,most have been dreary 0-0 or 1-0 scorelines, it would be interesting to see what viewing figures they generate as sky seem to keep them to themselves, probably out of embarrasment.

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23 Apr 2015 01:17:18
Swan could you give me next weeks winning lottery numbers please you seem to be able to see into the future

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23 Apr 2015 09:58:34
No I don't it was just a prediction

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23 Apr 2015 11:59:34
That was my thinking too Gibbo. It can't be a coincidence we go out of Europe and go on a run of 4 wins and a draw which should've been 5 wins. All of a sudden we are 3rd/4th in the 2015 form table.

Keep the core of the team - lose a couple of the obvious ones we all know about - and add a new CB and some more pace (would love Deulofeu back) and we will be challenging, no doubt in my mind.

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23 Apr 2015 18:13:52
There's no chance of losing the TV deal. It will only get bigger and bigger. Sky, BT and whoever else knows it is the EPL that can make or break you in this country. As for abroad it is still in it's infancy really and when clubs like ours cotton on to global marketing it will get even bigger.

But.

A more real and present danger we need to be worried about is it is very easy to be relegated from this division.

That is more likely to happen than the TV bubble to burst.

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23 Apr 2015 21:40:48
BlueJohnUns: While I agree that it does seem unlikely at present that the TV money will decrease let alone disappear, there are three concerns for me:
(1) The next deal only runs for a few years and who knows what the domestic, regional, and global economic situation (or political situation that affects the economy) will be and what money will be realistically available when it's time to renegotiate.
(2) The broadcasters can only continue out-bidding each other - and expect the consumers to pay - so far before they call a halt. It's not a bottomless pit - and they daren't risk killing the golden goose. They'll no doubt agree deals as a cartel behind closed doors - or is that cynical hogwash?
(3) Ouer club is utterly dependent on the TV money just to keep running and paying wages, etc. You mention relegation, and that would mean a massive loss of TV money for the club - and the danger of terminal decline. I trust that the club remains prudent and budgets accordingly and reduces (or at least doesn't increase) debt.
But what the heck do I know?

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{Ed003's Note - Nothing lasts forever imo.}

24 Apr 2015 13:21:24
All fair points Sid but football is a bit different when it comes to global markets and a crash of the stock market.

First off the TV companies main import is viewers. Without this it has no export which again is it's viewers. It's export is sold to import commercial revenue (adverts). So in terms of stock it's viewers is what it craves and need the most and the only way to get viewing figures to make it competitive is to have a product to sell to a mass audience.

That is Football. There is nothing in this country or most others that will compete with it until we invent the Hunger Games or Running Man.

TV revenue is vital for every single football team in every league. If you pulled this from any club whether it's us or Barcelona they will struggle hugely as commercial revenue would almost completely go as they would be advertising to 50, 60, 70 or 100,000 instead of millions around the world.

One final point is that people will always pay for Sky, Virgin or BT. People who are in DRO's, bankruptcy's, Debt Management plans or admin orders will put down in their essential expenditure there TV service provider. So even if the whole country went bankrupt Sky would still get their money! (I also worked in marketing and debt recovery as well as sportswear-management).

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