Everton Banter Archive September 02 2014

 

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02 Sep 2014 20:57:03
Well here I am to eat some humble pie. I made the forecast some weeks ago that we would spend 10 million plus on deadline day on a top quality center half. At the time it sounded really way out and unnecessary. After the first 3 games of the season, I think it would have been money well spent. Nearly every post on here is saying we need a new center half and pdq. All I will say is that I was wrong. but wish I was right. But Jags will hopefully get some match fitness and rediscover his best form. Or perhaps RM will do what I believe is right and drop Jags and bring in Stones. then we go on another 11 game unbeaten run. just like last season.

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Absolutely agree. Jags is far from his best since had got injury. We have no choices wish RM. call right.

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03 Sep 2014 16:40:21
It would be a shame to see Jags go the same way as Kevin Ratcliffe did. He was never the same player after his injury but Kendall and then Harvey continued to play him through loyalty even though he now lacked that ferocious pace which made him so special and got him out of trouble on the odd occasion. Ratters then started to just pass the ball back to Southall a lot of the time (which you were allowed to do then) and in the end the crowd got on his back and gave one of our best ever players a hard time. It was a crying shame to see it then and I'd hate to see it happen to Jags.

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Stones, Stones, Stones

the lad looks like he just wants to play week in week out

the more games he gets the better he will become, rather see that then Stones become like Smalling, Jones and Evans with little to no game time in their mid 20's and looking lost now

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02 Sep 2014 20:09:36
Hi Ed/s, Great coverage over deadline day and in the lead up as usual. A bit disappointed with the dealings on the day but overall, the window represented shrewd business. I guess we'll only find out in the fullness of time. A couple of queries; What was the deal with Henen? Was it a case of Olympiakos simply offering Anderlecht more cash? I was a little peeved the deal couldn't be concluded far earlier meaning nobody else could get in and gazump us. Secondly, how is it that the Premier League can pick and choose who to offer an extension to in order that get deals done? The cynic in me feels somebody somewhere has taken a huge backhander to authorise late transfers. Clubs after all have had since the 1st July to get business done. I understand Falcao was concluded well after the 23:00 deadline and all the headlines today regarding Cleverley appeared to be mocking him having turned his back on Villa in an effort to force through a move to us which ultimately failed. Low and behold, he's able to sign on the dotted line for Villa today!

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{Ed025's Note - it looks like a scam to me as well tone, why have a deadline if you dont stick to it?, the henen deal was a complicated one, and i have not got to the bottom of it yet mate, but im sure we will find out shortly..

03 Sep 2014 16:24:49
I could be totally wrong with this but didn't the deadline day used to finish at midnight Ed? Maybe it's possible that they call an end to it an hour early to give teams more chance to complete paperwork etc.

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{Ed025's Note - european time its 12 midnight spud, we are an hour behind in england mate...i would suggest that is the reason..

03 Sep 2014 19:58:32
cheers Ed

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I totally buy your explanation Ed025, however this is a grey area that needs to be tightened up. Despite the hour's time difference between Britain and the rest of Europe, there needs to be clear explanations/understandings of the time scales. Otherwise clubs could be conceived as being underhand and signing someone once others had perceived that the window was shut.

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{Ed025's Note - oh there is cheating going on davey, cleverley was signed at 2-30 pm the next day!...its the same with FFP mate, all the money clubs will flout the rules and get away with it..

02 Sep 2014 20:37:04
Alright Lads I know the Firing squad is out for Jags but I've got a sneaky suspicion that (if) he starts for England he will have one of the best games of his life and hopefully kick start his season and we'll have our captain back! I was all for bring new CB's in this window, but now we haven't jags just needs the backing from all of us

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02 Sep 2014 20:09:36
Hi Ed/s, Great coverage over deadline day and in the lead up as usual. A bit disappointed with the dealings on the day but overall, the window represented shrewd business. I guess we'll only find out in the fullness of time. A couple of queries; What was the deal with Henen? Was it a case of Olympiakos simply offering Anderlecht more cash? I was a little peeved the deal couldn't be concluded far earlier meaning nobody else could get in and gazump us. Secondly, how is it that the Premier League can pick and choose who to offer an extension to in order that get deals done? The cynic in me feels somebody somewhere has taken a huge backhander to authorise late transfers. Clubs after all have had since the 1st July to get business done. I understand Falcao was concluded well after the 23:00 deadline and all the headlines today regarding Cleverley appeared to be mocking him having turned his back on Villa in an effort to force through a move to us which ultimately failed. Low and behold, he's able to sign on the dotted line for Villa today!

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02 Sep 2014 19:03:35
OK no last minute signings apart from Henin but we didn't loose any of our best players and Eto looks great so all in all I think that's pretty good. There is one signing that still could and should be made and that is a fitness coach. I am right behind Roberto but he must take the rap for a poor start. If the squad had achieved the fitness levels the premiership requires we would have won the first 2 games it was only because we faded badly inviting the other team to attack in games we were in control that we drew those 2 games. The defence needs obviously to improve but lack of fitness was the reason we dropped points. Poor fitness also leads to injuries and we have already important players out. Injuries played a big part towards the end of last season. I think a shake up of training methods is needed. thgfest

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02 Sep 2014 12:46:52
Does anyone know why we have loaned david henen to put him into the under 21's? We basically develop him for olympiacos! If he does come into our first team at some stage this season and shows that he is decent then we are probably inflating the fee for ourselves if we want to take him on a permanent! Why didn't we just offer the 3 million for him? Any ideas eds?

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02 Sep 2014 16:30:49
the whole purpose of a loan is to 'try before you buy'. the prospect of this kid could be great or 3 mill down the drain, let's see how good he is before jumping to conclusions. I would be assuming, but we surely in the loan deal would have set a fee if we were to buy the kid if we wanted, iradicating the increase of fee if he does well in the first team (if he gets the chance).

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Another possibility about signing Henan on loan is good old fashioned respect and compassion to a lad who has been training with the team for a couple of months now and kept in the dark about his future for quite some time. This could be more down to Anderlecht playing hard ball and hiking the fees, or it could be Everton holding out for a lower fee, or both but either way, it's not fair to keep an 18 year old, away from his home and family for all that time, without giving him some kind of worthwhile opportunity. I'm sure the loan fee is nominal from Olympiakos and for all we know, they're actually doing us a favour, buy letting us test him over the season and then buying him for a fee that means we get our money's worth and Olympiakos get their money back, plus a little extra. By the end of the season, Bobby will have had plenty of time to decide if he wants him or not. I like to think the decision was based on respect for a young player, caught in the middle of a business deal he couldn't possibly fathom and maintaining the club's reputation as a centre of excellence to train, develop and be treated like a professional. It's the least we could do for him in my opinion.

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Blimey you have a lot of faith in human kindness but it doesn't go far in the world of big business. We would be doing it for our own interests not his. Just look at how Chelsea treat all their kids

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Good point ricktee. Reading my post back again I suddenly regret moving to Narnia.

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02 Sep 2014 12:16:00
Not sure I understand this one! Olympiakos sign Henan from Anderlecht, and we take him on loan to put him in the u21s for a season. Looks to me like we may be developing someone for some other team! Or am I wrong?

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I can't quite get my head around this one, so they brought him to loan out straight away does this mean we train him up to give back or is there a buy claus at the end of the deal? if so it seems to me a complete waste of time and money buying him in the first place, or am I missing the point?

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Almost the same scenario as Eric Dier!

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We have a clause to buy, his agent is KM, and he as a good working relationship with both clubs, not seen the inteview but he states the deal in it.

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02 Sep 2014 11:33:42
Well, what do you know? The club website has announced that we have signed David Henen - albeit as a season-long loan from Olympiakos immediately after he'd permanently joined them from Anderlecht!
It's a strange one. I imagine that we'll take this year to see if he's really that good and then, all things having gone well, make a permanent deal - hopefully at a fee, etc., that's already outlined as part of the loan arrangement with Olympiakos.

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02 Sep 2014 11:23:11
Been thinking about it, we need a centre back who can play right back, tyias didn't leave on loan, martinez loves him, he gets a new deal, he's ready

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It'll be interesting to see who, if anyone, does leave on loan when the lower division clubs (that's Championship and lower) can enter the loan market when it re-opens for them next week.
Also, I'm surprised that Francisco Junior wasn't moved on during the transfer window, as he didn't look to be part of RM's first-team/squad plans.

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02 Sep 2014 11:19:45
I reckon henen really wanted to sign, he realised a deal was not going to be agreed s jumped to olympiakos who probably bought him completely (no problem with third parties which was the hold up with everton) so next season we can buy him much easier, we get 9 months to see him properly before we make a decision on him, he will cost more but if he turns out to be as good as we hope then its worth it, if he isn't as good then we save money and didn't risk anything, win win I reckon or am I talking sh*te again?

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I think you're right, Swan.
What I can't work out is what Olympiakos get out of the deal - unless they've got a pre-agreed (bigger) fee for when (if) we make our loan permanent AND we're paying most (if not all) of the wages during the loan AND we're paying a (modest?) loan fee as well. All very strange, but I guess it's all about making the figures right re FFP, spending versus income, and overall rise in wage bill.

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02 Sep 2014 11:09:52
I don't no why everyone hates cleverly. I think he would be a great teplacement for osman. No one was saying he was a bad player when man u wer wining titles and he was playing well. Hope we go back in for him in january. Trust in bobby!

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02 Sep 2014 12:06:04
He isn't fit to lace osmans boots, wasnt macheda winning titles by himself at man u? Ign him up!, everyone hates him because he's the most talentless human alive and its a disgrace he's playing professional football

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I absolutely respect your right to express an opinion about players - we all have our personal views and preferences - but calling someone "the most talentless human alive" is way over the top in my humble opinion.

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So let me get this right, you don`t rate him Swan?

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02 Sep 2014 13:22:20
probably is sid, maybe he's a good dancer or a good arse kisser, let me rephrase, he is the most talentless human to ever be involved in football

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There you go, Swan - I never doubted you'd start warming to him sooner or later ;-)

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Does that mean that Kone has become the most talented footballer to NOT be involved in football?!

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02 Sep 2014 10:45:18
Bit shocked at the negativity surrounding this transfer window! We have spent big and secured all our top players with long term contracts, granted contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, however it secures the future value of the player.

We have had a dramatic 12 months of improvement, people need to realise we are a long term project, to expect us to buy another 3 or 4 players yesterday and be challenging for the league is pretty ridiculous. We have improved our squad since last season and will have another great season.

COYB!

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02 Sep 2014 11:59:48
All in all we have got to be quite pleased with the deals that have been done during the window. But, considering we let a defender go and the way we are conceding goals, it would not have hurt to bring in another cb. We can take positives from deadline day though. At least nobody was poached at the last minute, giving us no time to replace them. Oh and Cleverley didn't turn up at FF too :)

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02 Sep 2014 11:43:06
It's embarrassing sometimes Marty, we have spent more than ever, secured all our prime assets and not let anyone of importance go, got eto'o on a 2 year contract which will make Lukaku world class with the experience he gets off him, yet there are loads of moaning so called Blues going on and on about where is all the money Kenwright, why have you not bought a CB Martinez and so on.

Sort your heads will ye, none of us have any idea how the finances of a huge club work so stop trying to guess where the money has gon, and before the Bill haters reply, you name me a better owner than him, I know he doesn't have the money but he has the clubs best interests at heart.

On our defensive situation, it will be fine, Jags and Distin don't become crap overnight, relax and enjoy the ride with Bobby

Bring it on you moaning negative always got to knock the club sad miserable sods

Great job last night too Ed25

Degs

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02 Sep 2014 15:24:49
As I said Degs, we have to be, on the whole, happy with the way we have conducted our deals within the window. You're right when you say that our two central defenders don't become bad players overnight. However, it is blatantly obvious that they are not tearing up trees at the moment and that cover is quite sparse. Stones is good cover but Alcaraz has been poor in nearly every appearance so far. An injury to either of the two you mentioned, or their form not picking up sufficiently, leaves us short at the back and that has to be a worry

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“Bring it on you moaning negative always got to knock the club sad miserable sods
Degs
Murf1000”
Good forum, by the way…

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02 Sep 2014 09:02:16
I can't believe the Henen deal fiasco. The player supposedly really wants to sign for us, the price said to be £3 million. Everton haggle on and on because he is "one for the future" and, presumably, think that £3 million represents too much money to take a punt on a player who may or may not be good enough to play for us. We then sign Eto'o on loan, whose wages in a few months MUST be equal to (or let's be honest, quite possibly, more than) the difference between what Everton were prepared to pay for Henen and the £3 million price tag. Result: highly promising young player signs for another club AND THEN Everton set about trying to loan him from them, PRESUMABLY FOR A FEE (!?!?!?). To cap it all off, the Echo is saying that Martinez was backing the proposed loan move so that Henen could " continue his development on Merseyside. and Martinez was happy to proceed in the hope that the forward could develop into a potential option for the first team after Christmas". WHAT? So we passed up on a hot prospect striker who could have been in the first team by Christmas. Why? Are we now so skint that we could not afford to bridge the gap between our estimated valuation of the player and Anderlecht's £3 million valuation? If so, I find this a bit disturbing as the sums we are talking about in terms of the Henen deal are not huge in terms of modern football (and we had sold Duffy for somewhere thought to be just over a million just before the transfer deadline). I can only conclude that, either, our finances are stretched to an almost precarious degree or that it was just good, old-fashioned "cock-up a l'Everton". Again.

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{Ed025's Note - we dont know the full story cagey, maybe after his trial he was not as good as first thought?, eto was ready to be a first teamer so thats the big difference between the two mate, we have to trust bobby on this one, im sure if he really wanted him the dosh was not a problem..

I agree cagey. You would have thought that after weeks of haggling this deal for Henen would have gone through last night. Instead he ends up at Olympiakos of all places and we're talking about trying to loan him back for this season? This deal should (and let's face it COULD) have been concluded weeks ago. And what was all this nonsense about trying to sign Tom Cleverly last night when with the departure of Duffy, there was a clear place available for a decent CB. Toby Atterweirald? who the ends up at Southampton on loan. Strange goings on but hey, at least no one was poached at the 11th hour from our squad.

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02 Sep 2014 08:41:07
Well what a day. we desparately needed centre backs and yet we went after cleverly. I feel upto the next transfer window we will suffer for not trying to strengthen in the right places I hope I'm wrong but can't see it. I must admit like most evertonians I had hope for a good final day in the transfer window. just hope bobby and bill know what they are doing. Nsno

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We didn't go after Cleverly. Cleverlys' agent approached us. Villa had an offer accepted but Cleverly would rather wait until Jan where he can sign on a free to see what options he had. He wanted to join us. As a club we said we would take him on loan, or given the length of his contract we would offer in the region of 2 million for a transfer. United said that's too below their valuation so that was that. Its not like we desprately chased him. If we wanted him he was ours for around 4 million, Bobby basically played hard ball and said no, I will see in Jan if I want to sign him for nothing or not.

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02 Sep 2014 07:33:16
I find it worrying that some OP's have said what a poor transfer deadline day this has been! Perhaps it can only be seen as a slight disappointment is that we didn't strengthen our defensive options in the end, no bother, we still have an excellent defence and the depth is actually better than most.

Some people seem to have been taken in by a certain sports news channel that spending big is the be all and end all to doing well (Tottenham, leeds?) and if you don't buy on transfer deadline day you will automatically be relegation fodder, get real! We sold no-one of note, that's the first time in a long time we can sit here and say that. Just because the money hasn't been spent on players doesn't mean Kenwright is sleeping with it hoping robin hood doesn't come in the night. Martinez has said before he likes to keep some in reserve and there are other things unfortunately that money needs to be spent on to ensure our club runs as it does. Remember we may not have the money some clubs have but if you ask around they do envy us to an extent that we have a chairman who despite various claims, gives a s!"£ and is an actual fan.

Our squad is as good as it has ever been in the premier league era and for the first time in god knows how long we got our business done early. Admittedly some deals didn't go through and took too long which is worry (Henen for example), but perhaps there was a reason for this.

Some seem to have gone from trusting Martinez with their mortgage repayments to not trusting him with their lunch money. The man got us to 5th, he clearly knows what he is doing and I am not going to let the first few games let me think otherwise. we didn't start off to well last year either.

Sorry, ed, rant over :-), hope this doesn't offend anyone.

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{Ed025's Note - i dont care if it does SB, its the truth mate, and a very good post..

Only disappointing area for me is Hennan not going through, however, it looks like from meida reports either him or his management thought they could up his wages by holding out. If true I am not sure if we want that type of player with us anyway. On another note I hope Duffy's career realy takes off and he cements his place in the ROI squad. he had a good solid season with Yeovil but must not have the necessary atributes RM wants in his players.

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02 Sep 2014 09:45:28
Despite having signed Lukaku and Barry permanently the squad is not much bigger or significantly stronger than last year, however Pienaar, Gibson and Kone were out most of last season we reached 5th, they are back soon BUT the question is how fit are they and will they suffer injuries constantly as before!
I am glad we have not bought players not good enough to strengthen the squad but worry about our defence and think that letting one defender go we should have looked at an improvement player to come in.

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I agree mostly, the negativity being expressed by some fans is over the top. We have had a good transfer window overall. But, cleverly Hennan, Duffy going without a replacement, plus the fact we needed a decent CB anyway, for me that is a bit of a cause of concern. We obviously don't know what has happened behind the scene's but this is not a good end to the window and I do believe everton could have conducted ourselves in a better way. BUT IT IS VITAL TO REMEMBER THAT THESE BITS OF BAD BUSSINESS DOES NOT CANCELL OUT THE OVERALL GOOD TRANSFER WINDOWS. These things happen in football.

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02 Sep 2014 16:26:50
duffy leaving has no impact on our squad at all, alcaraz and browning by the sounds of things were higher up the pecking order for the cb position along with stones, jags and distan, so the sale of duffy has not made a dramatic impact on us being short in the cb position, the worry is that we have shipped goals, but also consider we have played two of the top 4 clubs from last season in the first of our 3 games this season. when the season starts to unfold i'm sure the good performances in defense will prevail. Both arsenal and in particular chelsea have improved their squads over the summer and I feel a few more teams will get wiped over by chelsea this season (i'm tipping them to win the league) however the opposing teams that will play chelsea I doubt will score 3 goals against them which is testiment to roberto's philosophy at the club to play expansive football and will leave us vunerable at the back, particularly against teams who have quality finishers in the side. I would drop Jags irrespecive if he's club captain as players need to know mistakes cost games and even the captain is not safe from making these mistakes and being dropped. Stones is a more than adequate replacement as he showed at the end of last season.

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02 Sep 2014 00:25:52
I feel this could be like a big wig transfer. Nothing reported until 3am with no reports coming out about it.


So we could all wake up and have a nice surprise


Well that's what I hope

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