Everton Banter Archive January 30 2014

 

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30 Jan 2014 23:53:31
Im a huge supporter of Martinez. I can see exactly what he's trying to do and other than a few games, this season has been an absolute joy to watch. I think the players are still adapting and as time goes on they can only improve, which is exciting given we are currently 4 points off 4th going into Feb.

But. I've noticed one fundamental flaw in the Martinez 'style' that he must address. And its time for a rant. Alarm bells started ringing early on when he uttered the words that he doesn't like set pieces and that he would sooner lose playing well rather than win playing ugly. The latter I believe is just his media bravado. His way of saying he's a manager whose teams play attractive attacking football. Of course he would rather win the game and take the 3 points. The former. Set pieces. i'm not so sure.

For me, there is enough evidence to suggest that set pieces, especially attacking corners, are not something Martinez places much emphasis on in training. Yes we have seen some great strikes from Baines, Barkley and a Mirallas from free kicks within shooting distance. But the way we treat corners in matches is worrying. let's get something straight. Corners are vital in football. How many massive games have been won by a corner? Kompany v Utd to win the league, Drogba v Bayern to equalise in the Champions League, Solskjaer to win Utd the Champions League are just a few that spring to mind. My point is, teams at the highest level often cancel each other out. What determines these matches is often tireless efforts on the training ground on 3 or 4 routines. The taker must place the ball in exactly the right area. The team must be running in unison creating the space, and the attacker must win the header and get it on target or into the area where the runners are. All of this must be synchronised. It's not easy. Luck plays a big part. But practice plays a bigger part.

Right now, I don't think the players attacking our corners have a clue where the ball is going to go, let alone where they should run. This is where I give Mr Rogers huge credit. He clearly places great importance on set pieces. And they are clever set pieces. We know only too well. The sort that sees Coutinho unmarked to slot in from a few yards. They had a lot of of corners on Tuesday and each one looked carefully planned and very dangerous. Surprise surprise the capitulation started from conceding our 4th straight goal v Liverpool from a set piece. Ours on the other hand. I honestly don't think there is any routine. Its like they just wing it and see what happens.

Gerard Deulofeu has been quoted as saying that when Everton win a corner, it sounds like they have scored a goal. This kind of sums up the Spanish attitude to corners. It's just a corner. Nothing to get excited about. But there is a reason our crowd gets pumped up when we win a corner. Its a great chance to score a goal. We've unhooked the strap and its time to take a peek. They say the crowd sucks the ball into the net. Right now, when we win a corner or a set piece too far to shoot, I sigh. I have no faith we will score. Its cautious optimism at best. I've not liked what I've seen.

I really want to believe that Martinez is not this naive. I want to believe that we spend hours practicing attacking and defending set pieces and that we haven't quite got it right yet.

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I have read and I agree set piece moves have undone us a lot this year but surely the players are drilled on this you mention coutinho at goodison barkley was his man marker but got caught ball watching barry at anfield let himself get blocked off and ends up getting lukaku injured its no good on a training ground were you can stop the play and go back in a game its either perfect or not any amount of coaching cannot cancel out human error we all do it day in day out at our place of work but because we are not in the public eye we do not get panned for it oh and by the way a set piece goal from a certain roberto martinez team won the fa cup in may 2013 let's hope it repeats its in may2014 coyb

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Hey Oli, I know we don't always see eye to eye, but on this one we are agreed. I put a post on 2 days ago more or less saying the same thing. Unfortunately my name did not go with it for some reason? Anyway, I agree with most of what you say Oli Jennings. However, I would add that in my humble view, our delivery of corners is absolutely terrible. We either tend to drill corners directly to the keeper and he catches it or more commonly have a right footer taking the right sided corners and a left footer taking the left corners. Thus meaning our corners swing out away from goal. These are so easy to defend. I have been saying for weeks that I can't actually remember the last time we scored from a corner. We have 60% odd possession every game. We pass it round lovely. We win corners then it gets cleared.down the other end and we concede. Yet when a team gets a corner against us, it's a real panic to defend.
ALL the other top teams regularly score from corners. and I mean regularly. We do not. It is a problem and I trust RM knows about it and once rectified we will start scoring from them. Our free kicks are as good as anyones, so it is not about quality of player. It is a tactical thing. If we could convert our possession to goals, we would be top of the league or near abouts.
Degsypulford

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Was a bit of a pointless rant really. Should have just said why the hell can't we look even slightly threatening from a corner. Which I see we clearly agree on! I wasn't aware we hadn't seen eye to eye in the past Degsy!? Not from my end anyway!

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30 Jan 2014 22:14:13
Up to recently no one could fault the work done by the manager and players, that is until injuries took its toll and top four was a strong possibility. I have even heard that from Man U supporter. The reason for today's situation is failure by the directors to give the manager the tools to do the job, ie the financial clout.
While mathematically possible can always hope for top four placing, it would be surprise if Arsenal, Chelsea or Man city failed but can always hope. That leaves Liverpool and think chance of getting above them and staying there went last Tuesday. There's always the hope one of them hits a bad patch
The FA cup has been favourable so far and perhaps the best chance of silverware this season and European football next season. Maybe for this season it is acceptable to concentrate on the FA cup, the income from this would offset income from possible lower league position.
I've been follower of Everton for 56 years by the way since Harry Cattericks days as manager and realistic in my thinking.
I also don't think all the talk of signing Lukaku is the answer
Thoughts of others appreciated.

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You make a good point Knowall but the cup only generates 1.8m to the winners, Wigan got that last season plus 40m for going down so league placing is obviously far more lucrative to all clubs. Mind you a bit of silverware always looks nice.
RickTee

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+ television rights

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The main issue with the lack of funds is as we all know investment is needed in the club and to attarct investors of the level we require going forward the club must be on a financial even keel. Investors know that ground development is required as well as team strengthening, it is no good if the club is on its knees in debt as no one will put that amount in, having said that RM has said we have funds from the sale of Felli, jella and Vic which is about £40m without TV money, I would think he has this money aside for summer targets potentially.

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The RS and Spurs have chucked literally hundreds of millions of pounds at their teams in the last 3 seasons. The RS ripped two yanks of 200 million and if they had not had their new sugar daddy come in with another 200 million, would have gone bankrupt, been relegated (by the rules) and had to start again in a similar war to Glasgow Rangers. Spurs seem to constantly have money. not sure where from? Then they sell Bale for 85 million and buy a new squad. We are at a big disadvantage. We are trying to do it (get in the Champions League and get the 50 million a year that comes with it. as well as players who only want to play for teams in the Champions League) against all the odds. Even if we manage it for one season, the chances of sustaining it over many seasons is unlikely. Our hope has to be that we build a stable club that is there or thereabouts over a number of seasons and then appears attractive to a mega business like Emirates or a sugar daddy like Abromovich. Then with the investment that comes we will be where we belong. All BK and the current board can do is stabilise the club, keep us in the top 6 and hope like you say that one or two slip up. I agree that the top 3 places are almost guaranteed. I also think that Moyes will sign more players at Utd and turn them round. Mata is a great signing and assuming Rooney and Van Persie stay fit, I can't see them losing many more games. We have to hang on to the shirt tails and await a buyer with money. My big fear is that we are too late and no one will want us (all the money places are already over subscribed) and after years of being there or there abouts, another buyer will come in who is no better than BK and in fact milks the club or is just bad at it. eg look at Blackburn, Birmingham, Fulham, Sunderland, Wolves. all great clubs through history that have been completely cocked up in just a couple of seasons. And I think that is BK's fear too.
Degsypulford

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{Ed025's Note - good realistic post that degsy, well done..

Just a note on Spurs Degsy - they charge almost double what we do for tickets. Therefore they generate close to double what we do from match days. They have also had successive seasons in Europe both CL and Europa so they have had more cash coming in than we do.
Evertons big investment problem is sadly due to our location. Unlike the RS we are not a global brand, the local economy means we will always have one of the cheapest day outs for a Premier League side or we would have a far smaller crowd. This means that even in a new stadium we would not be generating much more as we could not start charging the average blue considerably more for their ticket. The only way we can feasibly start making serious money as a club is by winning trophies playing in Europe and expanding our brand globally.
We can ask why club x got investment and we didnt, a lot has to do with the fact that we are a well supported local club in a two club city. That city is one of the poorest in the country. So sadly to keep us well supported prices stay low. Just my thoughts.
Having said that, the figures of slight profit from last financial year plus player sales and increased tv revenue would lead me to believe that there is money to spend at the moment and in the summer

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30 Jan 2014 22:05:20
48 hours since I looked at other forums and here. i'm over it. Got me thinking. Could the result on Tuesday be what we need to inspire us for the rest of the season. don't get me wrong it should never happen but we need to stick together and get back to some consistency. It won't be easy with our injury list but a couple of new signing and a good cup run and it won't be a bad season besides the one blip.

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30 Jan 2014 21:36:25
Why is everyone going on about getting Holtby? He is rubbish! What has he done at Spurs? We need 3 players, CF, CM and CH. I know we've got jags and Distin but Distin isn't going to play forever and Alcaraz is not good enough! I know its all about money but if everton could push the boat out and bring in a couple of quality players we could make the top four. I hope we don't keep Barry on, he's far too slow now!

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{Ed025's Note - I'm with you on holtby debs, but Barry?...your having a giraffe..

Do you go the match and watch us mate? Barry has been one of our best players. The mind boggles it really does

Paddock blue

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30 Jan 2014 22:09:49
alcaraz not good enough? after one game were we wasnt fit?, good player, distin doesn't have to play forever, but he will last next season so no need now, I like holtby mate, controlled the game against us at goodison this season and about barry, give your head a wobble, schweinsteiger is very slow, would you not have him at everton? of course you would, barry should be our main target as soon as the summer window opens

Mike-Ox Long

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Barry has been Mr consistent. Alcaraz was poor on Tuesday, but both he and Jags looked unfit. It was Distin we missed most. Gerrard outjumped Alcaraz for the 1st. Not sure how? Poor marking I guess. But the delivery to him was excellent. Look at my other post further down about corners. We waste so many and yet concede at a few too. Our possession per game is usually 60%+ yet when we get corners they are usually floating airy fairy outswingers which are so easy to defend. We should drill some in like the one to Gerrard.
Degsypulford

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30 Jan 2014 20:17:32
Hi Ed. Just like to comment on Martinez and his tactical Vision for our club. I would have sold baines to man u, When we had the chance to. He has been a shadow of the player he was. and he looks tired now. It would have Bolstered our Midfield with perhaps Lallana and Adam Johnson. 2 class players. Mirallas is not good enough either, Lukaku not peforming like he did at brum. Best player in the team by far is Coleman. and Sir David got him. So money don't buy you luck. As aladyce is finding out with their team. Any feedback from this post would be great.
Raz.

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{Ed025's Note - I'm glad baines stayed as he is quality, Adam Johnson is poor, Kevin mirallas is superb, lukaku played for WBA, and mr moyes will never be a sir...other than that raz...I totally agree..

Do not believe the above post Mirallas not good enough what planet has that poster just com off, GuernseyBlue

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30 Jan 2014 21:41:54
baines hasn't been that bad, just not his very best, hardly a shadow of himself, mirallas not good enough? he is miles better than adam johnson!

Mike-Ox Long

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When Lukaku was at West Brom, he had Odemwingie and Long also challenging for a starting place. sometimes, he's come on as a impact player, which was the case in quite a few games. he also had the incentive to work hard, as the other 2 strikers were good enough to hold a place in the team. With us, he's had to go up against Naismith, Jelavic, and Vellios. None of them are ever going to start. Closest was Jelavic, but we've sold him (which is something I still don't agree with).

Point is the lad is two thirds through the season. Leading the line and making those runs is a tough job, and he's done 90 mins of it on a lot of occasions. He's tired, and no wonder he's injured. I think he's a good player, but you can't just have one good striker in a team. There has to competition.

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Baz you wanted some feedback?
go and lie down in a dark room and have a word with yourself! some very silly comments

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So you want to get rid of the only player who worked hard the other night and one of our best players. And get a severely overrated Adam Johnson? What pills are you on lad? Adam johnson's as average as Wayne Routledge!

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Adam Johnson? haha. I bet you watched match of the day when he scored that hatrick. My question is, why have you not watched all the other match of the days? You would have some sort of valid opinion then. Even better, watch him consistantly in full matches. Then come back and praise Adam Johnson. Mirallas is twice the player Johnson is, ATLEAST!

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I agree with the Baines part, he's been absolutely dire, the rest is a load of crap, IMO. Baines shouldn't have had his place back from Oviedo as Bryan was outstanding and didn't deserve to be dropped. I don't know what's happened to LB but he just doesn't seem to be the same player in the last 12 months. He's been way off his brilliant best.

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30 Jan 2014 19:34:53
Tim ince to palace and holtby possibly off to Fulham!? We couldn't of been in for either can't see any player choosing Fulham and palace over everton!
You think we will do any business tomorrow ed? That injury list doesn't make good reading! Thankyou

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{Ed025's Note - bar for our 3 long termers si, the rest of our wounded are not far off mate, so it's not as grim as it seems...I would still like to see a new face or two, but it seems a bit late now..

30 Jan 2014 19:11:09
Strange to see Ince not signing for anyone. going round all the houses to find a club with the latest being a loan to Palace.
Perhaps his reputation is proceeding him?

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30 Jan 2014 19:08:18
We should keep john heightina as cover for cm
instead of letting him go and getting nobody in

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30 Jan 2014 21:42:38
or we could let him go and get someone in

Mike-Ox Long

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Ha ha quite right mick. Excellent retort.

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30 Jan 2014 19:04:07
I admit that when we got RM I had my doubts, however he has done an outstanding job, but, that outstanding job seems to be, once again, being undermined by the men who hold the purse strings. This manager is to loyal to come out and say it, but our boardroom is on the edge of grasping defeat from the jaws of victory, AGAIN.

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30 Jan 2014 17:29:50
Er, have I missed something here? We have an injury room filled to capacity, will probably have some more next week the way our lucks going, yet we won't be signing even short term contracts unless we get rid of Johnny?
Thanks Bill, real investment for that Champions League spot you told Bobby to get!

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Have you thoght that the players Martinez wants are not available right now so he's saving what he has until summer? Would you rather us panic buy a couple of players because we're short or wait and get our real targets in the summer?

Paddock Blue

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Rather we tried to get into top four or win the cup. Will do neither if we don't strengthen side.

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Errr, really? So you would sacrifice the option to build a team over the next few years for the sake of a quick fix and a good cup run/ league position? Each to their own mate but I want to see us put something together for the future not have. 5 minutes of fame

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30 Jan 2014 15:43:25
Hi Ed that looks like a very good set of financial results for the club any comments, GuernseyBlue

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{Ed025's Note - it is good GB, let's hope it equates to a couple of quality signings in the summer...if not before.

Still no match for the venerable, mighty Norwich City though who generated more from commercial revenue.

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30 Jan 2014 16:16:13
How much Money do we actually have to spend?

Outs:
Fellaini- 27.5mil
Anichebe- 4 rising to 6 million
Jelavic - 6 to 7 million

Ins:
Kone- 5 million
Robles- 1.5million
Alcaraz - Free
Deulofeu- Loan
Lukaku -Loan
Barry- Loan
McCarthy- 13.5 million
McGeady- 2 million
Traore - Loan

Loan fee's themselves are about 1 million each(ish depending on the player), So for each players sake we'll say 0.5 mill. Obviously some are more and others are less.

So total from Outs is :37.5 million, but we've also sent a few academy players out, so we get an extra 2 million. So we'll say about 39.5 million

And total from Ins comes at: 24 million

So left over, as we make a profit within these two windows is 15.5 million.

Take about 7 million away for the club to run and salaries and such, and we should have about 8.5 million left to spend.

Thats what I think anyways. But with that supposed 8.5 million, I'd get:

Alfred Finnbogason- 6 million
Niklas Moisander- 4 million

And I know that it adds to 10 million, but we are looking to sell Jonny as well, so maybe that could fund these transfers.

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Van Rhijn instead of Moisander. Sorry, I got confussed.

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30 Jan 2014 17:06:13
Bet you had fun working that out QB lol, not worth trying to guess what we have mate because there are two fat cats (not bill) on the board milking us and putting nothing in

Also sure I read somewhere the Lukaku's loan fee was 5 million, I think he is probably worth 15 million so if we ten we could possibly get him if the feel generous and add the loan fee in

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Degs, you have do idea. I had my calculator out and all!

If Lukaku's loan bill was 5 million, we may as well have bought someone else. I wouldn't mind Rom though, as I think he just needs some solid competition in our team, which left when Jelavic was sold.

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30 Jan 2014 18:32:11
I agree mate, we may see Lukaku stepping it up now the beast Traore is here, he is immense

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If only it were that straightforward. It's not a case of we sell a, buy b therefore are left with c. Running a football club is a little more complex than that.

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Yeah DB, I agree, but that's why I took 7 million out of the final sum.

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30 Jan 2014 16:07:42
good news today regarding the finances, we have made some profit and turnover has increased, no loss this year and no increased borrowing, we are moving in the right direction, coyb!

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30 Jan 2014 15:16:45
With spurs supposedly in for konoplyanka maybe the chadli rumours are true some will say he's no good but before spurs signed him we were interested nobody complained then I reckon a run of games under bobby will sort him theory's blues? ETID

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Don't we need striker? We have enough wingers.

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30 Jan 2014 15:49:22
nobody complained because we hadnt seen him play, we have now and he is poor, that's my theory

Mike-Ox Long

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Slowest winger i've seen in my life. don't know what he is good at, but I know he won't add much pace to the side, which is something we desperately need.

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He's made 22 apps 12 of those off the bench so a return of 2 goals 5 assists and 83% passing accuracy isn't all that bad

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His best position is being an attacking midfielder for me would give Barkely good cover

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I said Chadli was crap when were first linked with him.He adds nothing to our squad.He hardly ever scores and his assists are also non existent.

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30 Jan 2014 14:03:49
Bob has said there will be no further business this window he must be talking rubbish we have no fit striker.

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No fit striker for a few weeks yeah. But Mirallas will surely play there?

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30 Jan 2014 13:32:02
Remember When your kid fell off their bike and you lifted them, wiped away the tears and felt their hurt.
Remember the knot in your stomach the first time your child tells you their heart has been broken.
It hurts so much because we care so much, Remember N.S.N.O. is as much a benchmark for the fans as it is for the players, that`s why L.F.C. came about those fans didn`t make the cut. This is what makes us TRUE Blues, and remember It IS in our DNA.
We are Everton. All of us.

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30 Jan 2014 14:12:10
Hopefully 3 players in need pace at the back cover in central midfield and a striker fingers crossed

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30 Jan 2014 13:10:40
So much for being stronger after the window closes!

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30 Jan 2014 12:58:55
Deulofeu for me before lukaku, then get mychy

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Mychy as in michy batshuayi? or Michu?

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30 Jan 2014 15:50:44
deulofeu any day for me too

Mike-Ox Long

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31 Jan 2014 00:34:39
I have it on good authority that we haven't a hope in hell of signing deloufeu permanently. We do however have an agreement set to extend his loan into next season which barca are happy with for him to continue his development.

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30 Jan 2014 12:08:13
Hi Ed's what's the chances of us making a signing?

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{Ed025's Note - we are trying speke, but its got to fit in with our long term plans, i would say 50/50 mate..

30 Jan 2014 11:36:38
Any of Eds any news on Everton looking to bring anyone in tomorrow. If we did I think it will have a positive reaction on goodison for Saturday.

Thanks

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{Ed025's Note - i think it would eddy, im sure we are looking mate, but they have to be the right deals for the club, and not just stop gaps who will be surplus to requirement in the summer..

30 Jan 2014 11:22:09
I reckon we aren't done, with regards to the transfer market. I think there are a few signings still to be made, and we are only waiting till last minute as to not get in a bidding war with another team. Most likely to be because we are skint. Such like the herenveen sc striker. We seemed to be really keen for a bit, but so did a few other clubs, and so our interest in him died down. Have we heard since of another club going in for him? Nope, because they've seen our interest wither. So you never know. We could still be keeping tabs on the situation and going in for a deadline day bid. I guess we can all hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

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30 Jan 2014 11:16:37
Looks like we've made a right schoolboy error letting Jelavic go without a proper replacement. Soon as you take a chance like that it bites you on the arse and it's happened to us! Traore won't be fit for another ten days but still will be weeks away from being anywhere close to match fit and Luka is going to be realistically a month. Never put all your eggs in one basket. That being said, it's done now and I'll be calling the lino all the names under the sun on Saturday as he gallops past if he gets anything wrong and singing my lungs out for the team! Can't believe some of the comments on here after the Derby I was that disgusted in some of them I logged out until today. I was ashamed at some of our so called "fans" the same "fans" who were crowing how great we were how Uncle Bill was getting it right etc, then one bad performance and a bit of a beating and Kenwright needs to get his wallet out, martinez is a rubbish tactician, Jags is too fat? WTF is wrong with you people? Listen, I've been watching Everton for a long time, I've been through the good years of the 80s (and before) to the desperation of the 90s and beyond (as I'm sure many others here have) so have been round the block a few times so for anyone who can't see this or grasp it I'll say it as blunt as I can. WE ARE NOT AND NEVER WERE GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TOP 4 PLACE! Our squad is not deep enough nor does it have enough quality! Our strongest 11 is as good as any 11 in this league on it's day but that's where it ends teams around us are spending hundreds of millions on players, 2 of tottenhams players are more expensive than our first. 11 ffs but we're still there and there abouts competing so where does anyone get off on slating the manager/chairman/players after one bad result. Reallity check, we're not as good as you think we are so stop expecting the impossible. Teams get beat, sometimes heavily tthats whAt happens and nobody is more upset than me over Tuesday but less of the slating individuals, its a kopite trait! I'm all for being optimistic and hopeful but just try and keep your feet on the ground. We've got a good side with some first class players a dynamic new manager and a board that is looking after the club and we 're moving in the right direction. Get behind the team and let's move on COYFBB!

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{Ed025's Note - great post that paddo..

30 Jan 2014 13:55:02
totally agree with you paddy mate. I couldn't f*****g speak after the game on tuesday I was that bloody angry. but when the dust settles it is just one game (all be it one bloody big game and jesus it hurts). I used to say not long ago that at least I've seen my team lift the league title twice, and I probably never will again. but now there is a genuine bit of hope that we are going in the right direction and not just treading water.

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Well there's the obvious positives you pointed out, brilliant. But Incase you dididnt notice, Montpellier won the French league and they spent about 70p and a can of Coke in doing so, finishing above the likes of Lyon, marseille, psg, money isn't everything, agreed it plays a massive part in football, but the right manager doesn't need 100 mill, and please don't say we're not and never have been good enough, deulofeu and lukaku are worth 50M combined. Regardless if they are on loan, they play for everton.

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They are not our players though are they. Take the loanees out and you'll find I'm right. Think you missed the whole point of what I was saying mate, we don't have the financial clout of others yet we're still competing which is a good thing. You said money isn't everything, sorry but in the modern game it is. As rubbish as that sounds it's a fact of life. If you have endless resources like City and Chelsea then buying players of a high calibre is attainable and eventually they'll buy enough (bit like now) to steam roll everyone. The manager is just as important but a good manager with money ultimately beats a great manager with none.

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30 Jan 2014 10:47:32
A question for you all.

I made a commitment at the start of the season to go the whole year without any reds players appearing in my Fantasy Football squad ( I'm sure I'm not the only one).

I've also developed the unenviable habit of cursing players, with 8 of my most recent signings succumbing to injury within a fortnight of me bringing them in.

With this in mind, should I end my Liverpool embargo and let my hoodoo run ravage through Anfield?

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I would do what your heart tells you, however its a bit late to catch up as the reds strikers have been on something this year, red bull anyone?

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Its interesting that the leader of the Everton Rumours Fantasy League had you know who as captain as did many of our colleagues :(

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30 Jan 2014 02:37:04
Should make a 2 mill bid for Gael kakuta. Can't really go wrong and if he fulfilled his potential if would be a a superb deal

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30 Jan 2014 08:20:18
no, he won't fulfil his potential, he hasn't made it and wont, lazy as hell, woeful

Mike-Ox Long

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I think he could be quality mike he is like a black version of Barkley haha.
And I feel at a club like everton where he isn't competing with 6-7 world class players in the same position he would flourish

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30 Jan 2014 01:25:03
Looking at loan deal for Marseilles Tunisian striker Saber Khalifa, one goal in twenty matches, Daily Mail

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I think vellios would be more prolific than that

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Saying that it would allow a great prem link with the 5 star skilled Yassine Chikhaoui for my Fifa 14 Ultimate team. Every cloud and all that.

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