Everton Banter Archive December 04 2018

04 Dec 2018 18:23:59
Great comment from Mourihno today about Man who's almost inevitable right to finish in the top 6.

I would love us to finish in the top 6 for obvious reasons but even more so now and hopefully at the expense of Mourihino.

04 Dec 2018 18:39:11
Same as that mate.

04 Dec 2018 22:33:16
The special one says they should never be seventh - that's right you plonker as of tonight you are 8th.

{Ed025's Note - love it mate..

05 Dec 2018 12:44:09
I think Leicester Bornmouth and Watford will be around same points as Utd. The problem he has is he has spent a bomb on the areas he needs to strengthen. Lakaku is not a title winning forward Pogba not interested and centre backs all not up to standard. Sanchez looks a differen player. Are they just going to give him another 300 million to make more mistakes. And let’s be honest - who would want to work for him? - especially if you are top top player and City round the corner. But I hope they keep him for next 10 years - he’s rubbish.

04 Dec 2018 16:08:46
Hey guys, just wondering if anybody has any idea what price Barcelona would be looking for to make Gomes a permanent deal?
I think he's playing a blinder so yes that will affect it, but surely a bid that recoups their outlay on him is the ballpark, around £30 mil was it?
I just figure that surely they can't be too outrageous when everybody knows he is not wanted there. Yes they made a profit on Mina (player in the same situation) after a very good world cup, but still, that was a relatively fair price in todays inflated market.
Im just hoping we can pounce quick and get a deal done in Jan before more teams sit up and really consider taking him.

One final question if i may, hearing rumours we're interested in Sergi Samper. Is this nonsense due to our summer dealings with Barca? Surprised if we had a genuine interest after so many injuries but what do i know.

04 Dec 2018 16:34:49
I think he has a £100 million release clause mate.

04 Dec 2018 16:48:20
Thanks Guernsey, steep release clause but i think he'd be allowed to move for much less than that. Wouldn't they only enforce release clauses on someone they wanted to keep? My guesstimate is if they get their money back they'll let him leave. If they generate a bidding war then still less than £50 mil. An awful lot of money yes but around the region of what we'd pay i think judging by our prices for Richarlison and Sigurdsson.

04 Dec 2018 17:26:57
Mina had a high release clause in his contract as well but got him for much less, spot on about only if they want to keep the player that the release clause would come into play.

If I was Everton, I would try to negotiate something in January before the end of the season before his stock rises further.

{Ed002's Note - They needed a non European/African place freed up for Arthur and he had not lived up to expectations. I would put any thoughts of release clauses out of your mind Nev.}

04 Dec 2018 17:43:55
Daily Star? say £29million for Gomes hmmmm.

{Ed025's Note - thats only his left foot GB.. :)

04 Dec 2018 17:59:17
£89 million so say The Times, silly season Ed 025 name your price it seems.

{Ed025's Note - very much so mate..

04 Dec 2018 17:49:15
Ed 002. Is this something Everton will try to do in January or will they wait until the summer window. Also Regarding release clauses etc, would this be a case of them being irrelevant because it’s two separate European league sides? I know your not fussed going into details with us but was just wondering if it’s due to this fact or just not something the two clubs need in the negotiations.

{Ed002's Note - I don't know and can only speculate but it is probably not well known that loans to permanent transfers are not constrained by the transfer windows as others are, so it could happen at any time if the three parties agree.

AS for clauses, maybe this will help:

This is a horribly complex area not least because they are written under individual national laws. They cause a great deal of misunderstanding with football supporters and the media alike.

The "buy out clause" is legally binding between a club and a player. The "buy out" is effectively what it says - a means for the player to buy himself out of the contract. As an example, if a player wishes to buy himself out of a contract, he pays the applicable FA (on behalf of the club) the amount of the "buy out" clause effectively becoming a free agent. The problem is that in most cases a player would need to obtain that money from the buying club - and this is fraught with issues regarding "tapping up" and, of course, taxation (as it can be seen as income for the player and would therefore be subject to income tax). There was a test case about the taxation issue in Spain about five years ago which is why they have an exception. All players in Spain and Portugal have a release clause that allows the player to buy himself out of his contract without tax implications. This was to address a ruling from around 30 years ago allowing players a way out of their contracts. It works differently in Iberia to elsewhere as the tax implications do not make such clauses viable. All players in Iberia must have a figure set and agreed with the club. So "buy out" clauses are very rare. Related to this is the Webster Ruling but I don't intend to go in to that now.

A "release clause" is far more common in that it gives a figure that the club would accept for the sale of a player to another club - but it is not legally binding except where both parties (clubs) are in the same country (for the sake of argument I should say that football Spain and Portugal count as the same country as do England and Wales) for legal purposes. These are normally unreasonably high figures (Messi at Barcelona for example) introduced to act as a deterrent for hostile bids - and even then the club could easily block a move. However, if a club in the same country does agree to match a release clause then the selling club would be obliged to ask the player if he is interested - there is no obligation on the player to make a move. For interested clubs outside of the country, the selling club may use it as a guide but are under obligation to accept a bid and may demand a higher figure. The other notable point about Spain and Portugal is that the clauses if invoked by a non Iberian club need to be paid in full by the player (there are local rules that stop tax being due) but by needing to put up 100% of the money upfront would end many transfers then and there.

There is then the becoming popular "termination clause" which is binding between the player and the club and if met would see an offer from anywhere accepted and the player given the opportunity to make a call on a move. This overcomes the issues associated with "buy out" clauses as the money would be paid by one club to another and about the legal proximity of the buying side.}

04 Dec 2018 18:13:54
I feel somewhere in the region of £50 mil would be a fair price. I guess it all depends on how keen he is to join us on a permanent basis. Fingers crossed.

04 Dec 2018 20:06:24
Great info ed but you say release clauses only work between two clubs in same country but if memory serves me correct arsenal bid 40 million plus 1 pound for suarez and was rejected even tho clause was allegedly 40 mil. Obviously we don't know the one and outs but why could this be rejected if it matched a 'clause'?

{Ed002's Note - The Liverpool owners stepped back on an agreement with the player. For another player desire of the owners and the player become relevant - so perhaps for €xM it can be done. I would put the clauses aside. Foe €40M or wahtever if the player is cool with it and then a deal can be done.}

05 Dec 2018 10:37:27
Bloody hell Ed002. That is an amazing and concise reply. I know we have differed on certain coaching issues in the past but that explanation on buy out/ releas clauses etc is second to none and I have certainly learned a lot from you on this subject. Hats off to you and thank you for taking the trouble. I was not aware of potential tax complications in particular and will say again thank you. I certainly will not question your knowledge on transfer contracts etc ever again. May dispute coaching ones as that is more a matter of opinion without rights and wrongs. but the knowledge you have here will never be questioned by me. Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - You are welcome.}

05 Dec 2018 12:50:18
Thanks for explaining that for us Ed. It’s actually not that hard to underst When summarised like that.

05 Dec 2018 12:52:29
I think the release clause just needs to be ignored. It’s just a legal process. Ultimately he is worth somewhere between 35-55 million. Advantage we have is he appears to want to stay with us. Plus we have good relations with Barca.
The only thing (date I say it) which will mess it up will be the top 4 coming in for him:
Spurs - won’t pay the fee
City - don’t need him
Chelsea - don’t need him
Liverpool - he is definitely a step up from Milner and Henderson (id hate it but I think it’s possible)
Man Utd - not top 4 but I think he would definitely be better than Mata and Fellini

I really hope he signs and I think us signing a top striker and finishing 5th or 6th hopefully would convince him we are a place he can progress (my toes are crossed) - I bet his agent is busy behind scenes.

{Ed002's Note - Everton will try very hard to sign him}

04 Dec 2018 13:50:04
Merson should go back on the ale, I think we should picked the biggest found of applause ever when he runs to the park end and Gwladys Street tomorrow. Let him know we are behind him and it will be sticking 2 fingers up to Merson and co who have had a dig at him.

04 Dec 2018 14:44:25
Should say give pickford the biggest round of applause, predictive txt grrr.

04 Dec 2018 15:25:47
absolutely mate, the whole stadium needs to roar tomorrow, show the lad its OK he made a mistake but he's one of us and we are right behind him still. Not just him tho let's get the ground rocking tomorrow lads show them we appreciate the effort they put in and help them get the vital 3 points tomorrow, great is the gunners beat united and we win open up a gap.

04 Dec 2018 17:08:08
I absolutely agree, although we would be needing to sign another goalkeeper if I had access to a firearm on derby day haha.

04 Dec 2018 18:16:15
Merson was a decent player but he's a lousy pundit and isn't fit to wipe Jordands boots.

04 Dec 2018 08:44:42
I absolutely despise Paul Emerson. I swear he can't stand us. Any opportunity and he will take a swipe at us.

04 Dec 2018 07:29:01
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool v Everton - A Liverpool Perspective