Everton Banter Archive September 04 2016

 

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04 Sep 2016 23:31:48
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Believable1 Unbelievable1

05 Sep 2016 10:18:32
Thats good news mate, thanks.

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04 Sep 2016 19:08:38
As far as I know about the ffp rules now I might be wrong but hope this helps NBTB. A club is not allowed be in dept of more than 50mill and if they are they must significantly be trying to reduce it, a team can only spend what they earn example player sales, sales from club products Kits and stuff, commercial income from sponsors, TV money gate receipts. As far as I know a owner cannot take money from his personal finances and just hand it to the manager to buy players I think this was one of the reasons this rule was brought in hope this helps but as I said that's my take on the ffp rules.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

04 Sep 2016 20:35:57
In essence that is bang on. However if your Man City you can give naming rights to the stadium as an example. Point is there is ways round it. Moshiri could set up Goodison Park ltd and pay 500 mill for naming rights.
The reality is as I have said since he became majority shareholder, he's only the 8th richest share holder in the prem. He's not even the owner of Everton. We see some change when he gets over 50% shares but even then he's not mega rich in premier league football terms.

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{Ed002's Note - Really, it is nothing like this.}

04 Sep 2016 22:24:22
Thanks for the input guys.

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05 Sep 2016 07:08:22
As in everything in life football fair play rules can be 'adjusted' to suit. However, even when they are judged to have been flouted the fines are not exactly debilitating.

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05 Sep 2016 12:32:37
Sponsorship does not work as you think. I put this forward a while back but looking into it there are rules over it and setting up a dummy company can't be done.

Using his own investments have to be approved by that particular business to invest in sponsorship with Everton and they will want a fair price.

He can invest some monies and use the club and himself to get loans against future revenues. Our commercial side though will be improved and I'm sure this will be an area that will increase rapidly but the big one is the new stadium.

Naming rights, more commercial activity and revenues from events should see us being able to compete with the big boys. No reliance then on a billionaire. The Arsenal model.

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05 Sep 2016 12:53:17
''not exactly debilitating. ''

Couldn't agree more BCT . virtually no forfeiture at all!

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05 Sep 2016 17:28:20
You should all look up what one of the Ed's wrote on the FFP rules a while back probably be able to use the search function and it clears a lot of it up.

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{Ed001's Note - it will be by Ed002 if that helps the search.}

04 Sep 2016 18:16:49
Forget your a Blue! . seriously hold your hands up if you think Henderson would be playing for England if he was still at Sunderland and not at a so called BIG CLUB! . he's an absolute joke! To think he got a chance over Ross!
Someone tell me I'm wrong?

Believable4 Unbelievable0

04 Sep 2016 18:25:57
Once again our team can't break down a poor defence. No dead ball specialist (baines) or creative midfielder (barkley) .

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04 Sep 2016 19:40:08
Most fair minded evertonions would admit, ross is not yet the finished artical, but, that england team was crying out for the flashes of sheer class the barkley can bring to open a mass defence, at the least he should have been an option from the bench. ps. Baines is still the best left back in the prem, BY A COUNTY MILE.

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04 Sep 2016 19:58:21
England are Richard Wright and are just getting worse. Seen more penetration in a nunnery.

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04 Sep 2016 20:48:17
England were actually all over them and in the end won 1-0 sometimes we fans need to be a little less deprecating and more supportive.

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04 Sep 2016 21:40:35
BCT, tactically, our managers are not good enough to orchestrate the game and break teams down. This was evident against Iceland, Russia and Wales to some extent, not to mention the world cup in 2014. I would have expected big Sam to play to his strengths with the ball over the top to Vardy but instead he plays Kane who's a shadow of himself and with no width on the pitch.

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04 Sep 2016 21:45:58
Have said it before, it's not how well you are playing, but which team you play for.

As soon as we sold John Stones to City, I said he would start the next England game, same with Ross if he was at City or Chelsea.

Different manager and almost the same old Englabd suspects.

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05 Sep 2016 08:21:50
The biggest issue for England apart from what the hell is Henderson doing there, is the fact they still don't know where to play Rooney and keep 'fitting ' him in as he is captain when there are better players for those positions.
This was highlighted at the last world cup in brazil when Hodgson put him wide left where he failed to track back constantly exposing Baines. Now he is played where Alli or Barkley should be.

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06 Sep 2016 08:16:28
The England set up is a farce and has been for years, the last decent manager we had was Bobby Robson. In my opinion there is to much politics with the FA and its no coincidence that players from favourable clubs are selected. If Baines and Barkley where at Man Utd they would be playing or at least be in the squad. If Rashford was at another club he would not have gone to the euros. Walcott would not be selected if he was at smaller club. Would Clyne be selected if he was still at Southampton?
I always remember Andy Cole when banging in the goals for Newcastle was not selected but as soon as he signed for Man Utd he was England's main striker!
To many conspiracies over the years for this to be a coincidence and probably has an impact on why players want to move clubs the more favoured.

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04 Sep 2016 16:51:27
Bit of a change blues how about a poll to change the mood for a bit who do you think will be are player of the season how about it ED it's getting a bit monotonous on here now.

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{Ed033's Note - Everton best player voting poll.

04 Sep 2016 17:31:55
I pressed greyed but meant to press Niasse, hope it doesn't mess the vote up.

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04 Sep 2016 15:06:01
Can't moshiri lend everton the Money instead of getting an outside loan or is that against the rules.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

04 Sep 2016 20:50:04
Yep that's why he came there for to splash the cash that's why we spent all that money in the transfer market on big mane players.

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04 Sep 2016 14:33:45
Ed002 could you explain the implications of the FFP rules please? I seem to remember you implying before that the rules had a certain amount of flexibility and that something about the wages being more of an issue at Everton.

Maybe my memory is incorrect or I picked up your post wrong at the time. I would appreciate it if you could give a brief explanation of it in relation to Premier clubs spending on new players.

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{Ed002's Note - Remind me in a couple of days and I will summarise it for you NTTB - I am real busy right now.}

04 Sep 2016 16:12:45
Ok, thank you Ed002.

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04 Sep 2016 14:28:27
Degsy, our squad deteriorated? Could you expand on that point please.

Believable0 Unbelievable2

04 Sep 2016 16:14:05
No problem, but before I start please remember it is about opinions. Firstly, immediately prior to Martinez taking over, we had Distin, Anichebe, Osman, Pinaar, Donavon, Neville, Rodwell, Saha, Naismith, Jelavic, Yobo, Cahill, Heitinga, Howard and Fellaini, Stones and Hibbert. This was part of our 2012 squad.

When Martinez arrived he either allowed all these players to be sold or retire. Admittedly there was an overlap where Moyes sold a couple of these just prior to Martinez arriving. These were replaced over a period with Joel, Alcaraz, McGeady, Kone, Eto'o, Lennon, Cleverly, Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Deulofeu, Mori, Atsu and of course Lukaku. Some of these have already retired or been moved on. But in my humble opinion, the first group of players look much stronger than the second group. Lukaku aside, I feel the first group of players have goals throughout. whereas the second group just don't have goals except for Lukaku and Mori.

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04 Sep 2016 20:43:28
Degsy look up my previous posts if you want. I'd say no one on here mentions that everyone is entitled to their opinion any more than I do.

Fair enough you think there is more goals in that first group. I don't agree. In terms of which group has the better footballers I would agree the first group is slightly better even though I can't see where more goals would come from them.

Martinez did sign some awful players but he also signed some brilliant players. The first group in my opinion is a steady group of players where as the second is more up and down group. I've said before I far rather Moyes but I call it as I see it. Imho (in my humble opinion - which is in plenty of my posts) there is no player in the first group who are better signings than Barry or Lukaku.

Barry has been fantastic and Lukaku even though he was our record signing has seemingly doubled in value. Which comes in handy for the financial fair rules you were talking about. But that's a different conversation all together.

There is goals in Del boy, Lennon and Eto'o along with plenty of assists. I also see you've ommited Barkley. Not signed by Martinez I know but he hardly played previously and is very much part of the squad.

That brings me back to my original question. I don't really think you answered it. Yea you compared the different players but deteriorated squad? I can't see it. We signed 4 players and have 25 players named along with 3 under 21 players I think it is. 28 players don't agree that is deteriorated.

I think the opposite in fact. Imho the squad is stronger now than it was one year ago. Yes 4 players signed but nothing wrong with the rest of the squad as a whole. Like every team there is some stragglers. You'll always have that. You'll also always have a turnover of players.

I've said myself we were heading for relegation under Martinez and I never liked that he was our manager. It was more the use of the players at his disposal, his team tactics and overall approach I had a problem with.

For example Mirallas was very wrongly frozen out. Howard was kept on too long. Too much reliance on Lukaku and not enough team tatics to get midfield more involved with scoring goals. Not that they hadn't potential, it was his set up that didn't include them in scoring goals as much as it should have or could potentially have. The whole attitude of the team looked unprofessional and far too nice.

A bit of bite and meanness back in the team now. Badly needed. I expect our squad to be even better this time next year. It will build on a very good core of young players like Barkley, Lukaku, Del boy, Holgate, Galloway, Davies, Dowell even Mori and McCarthy who are still only 25.

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04 Sep 2016 22:02:09
I won't go into too much detail but I'd say the two teams are a flip of a coin.

Rodwell, Saha, Pienaar and Victor spent more time on the treatment table than playing. I'd take Barry over Neville. Jelly as much as I love him was woeful after them 1st six months. Felli wanted out and we got Rom. We haven't replaced Naisy I'll admit. We've just got stek to replace Howard.

It's just a bit irrelevant. They were aging and needed replacing or wanted out.

As for goals I've put it up before check the records. The teams for the past three years scored reletively the same amount of goals as any season since 1986. The goals against caused all of the issues.

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04 Sep 2016 22:26:14
I'd agree with pretty much all of that BlueJohnUns.

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05 Sep 2016 08:57:02
There were goals from Cahill, Osman, Pienaar, Anichebe (but not many) Donavon, Saha, Jelavic and Felli. Ok Naisy is in both groups. Deulofeu has very few goals in him.4 in 43 games for us so far. admittedly some as sub. Relative to their positions. the ones I list above out score the second group substantionally. Look them up and do sums. Only Lukaku and Mori score well for their relative positions. Barkley does too. but on that point I have already said Martinez put too much responsibility on him as a youngster. He looked lost last season at times and ended up being booed by our own fans. But like I said. this is my opinion (except for the goals stats) in fact. Cahill 68 goals, 43 goals, Fellaini 25 goals, Saha 27 goals, 33 goals, Anichebe 18 goals, Jelavic 16 goals, Yobo 8 goals. That is 238 goals. That IS MY POINT! Now compare the other lot. Alcaraz 0, McGeady 1, Kone 6, Eto'o 3, Lennon 5, Besic, Barry, McCarthy, Cleverly, Deulofeu etc less than 12 between them. that's a total of 27. So yes some are still playing but my point (and it is a fact) that these previous players had goals all through their respective Everton careers. The second group have 10 times less goals. That is why I say the squad deteriorated. No doubt you will pick one small point out of my post and distract by focussing on it but you cannot deny that the first lot have substantionally more goals throughout the squad. Yes Barkley chipped in with 8 last season. but he was here under Moyes but was stilltoo young to play regularly. Yes Lukaku willalways score 20+ a season and that's Martnez's one piece of brilliance. Back to the beginning. we were comparing squads not one individual.

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05 Sep 2016 09:46:18
NBTB not sure what happened to my post. the players were typed in with goals alongside. but back to your point which I did not answer. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. when I said the squad deteriorated. I really meant up until Martinez was sacked. I believe the 4 signings (5 including the Sheffield kid) are 1st team players that will strengthen us and the tide has indeed turned. I have made this point so many times and if you look at the sums, there is no arguing the facts. The players in the first group (from Moyes days) were replaced by the second group by Martinez. The first group outscore the second group by at least 5 to 1 andpossibly as high as 10 to 1. Yes Del boy is young and still playing but even he has so far mustered only 1 in every 10 apperances. A grand total of 5 goals in 2 spells with us. Mori and Lukaku are the only ones who score well for their respective positions (Barkley aside because he was starting to play before Martinez came and was not a Martinez signing. let's drop it now though I feel like a long player record that's stuck!

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05 Sep 2016 13:08:48
Degsy I am not going to look up the goals scored by all them players and add etc. That would take far too much time which I don't have. I spend too much time on this site as it is. Didn't even add up your goals there either. You have goals in your first group with no names beside them so I don't know what the point is there.

I still don't agree with the goals thing. Mainly because you give absolutely no relevance to how long these players were at the club. Cahill scored what was it 68 goals you say. Over how long a period? Tham near more than the second group of players combined. You can't add up goals in that point without giving time a reference. Your point is totally biased.

Anyway I'm sick of it too. Main point I make is Koeman will get far better results out of the same players. Signed 4 players granted but this needed to be done regardless with the amount of retired players that left.

You put our failings down to the players this last couple of years. I put it down to the manager more or less. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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05 Sep 2016 13:23:49
Degsy you are looking at them individually. As a TEAM we scored on average the same amount of goals for the last 30 years. BUT we CONCEDED almost 15 to 20 more over the last two. Do you think scoring goals was our problem last season or do you think our defending was atrocious?

Martinez team got 61/ 48/ 59 in league goals. Moyes last three years and probably his best sides got 51/ 50/ 55. That's 168 Martinez and 157 Moyes. 12 more goals.

Defending: martinez 38/ 56/ 55. Moyes 45/ 40/ 40. Martinez 139 moyes 125. 14 mores goals.

Finally Moyes only reached 60 goals once. 48/ 38/ 45/ 34/ 52/ 55/ 55/ 60/ 51/ 50/ 55.

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05 Sep 2016 13:46:45
sorry Martinez conceded 149 and not 139 and it was 24 more goals.

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05 Sep 2016 14:10:40
Good points there BlueJohnUns and it shows where the problem is. Conceding goals not scoring them. I would view that this is because of the set up Martinez had.

Degsy's main point from what I gather is that not enough goals under Martinez were scored from midfielders and the players he left.

I agree to a point but don't think its the players fault or their cause. My point is that was the way they were told to carry out games and that Lukaku was looked to, to score the goals.

Degsy simply thinks the midfielders are not capable of scoring goals. I disagree and think under Koeman they will once they have the opportunity to. As tactics will change and Lukaku will not be looked upon as much as he was under Martinez to score goals.

I guess time will tell. Degsy has his mind made up as have I. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

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04 Sep 2016 12:00:43
Is anyone going to vote for the new Gwladys Street Hall of Fame entrants? My picks from the shortlist are Kevin Campbell, Joe Parkinson and Pat Van Den Hauwe.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

03 Sep 2016 23:03:51
ed 25 a lot people disappointed we didn't spend 100 mil if they true but squad is lot stronger then last year hopefully if we are doing well we can strengthen i'm January.

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{Ed025's Note - thats how we have to view things bretto, im as disappointed as anybody we never got at least a forward in but we did try our hardest, we were willing to spend top money on top players and that for me is a step in the right direction mate..

04 Sep 2016 08:56:36
At least we do seem to be buying quality . .

Just a quick thought and reflection on Premier League's top midfielders so far this season:
Position Team Season Passing Accuracy Won Tackle Interception Won Ball Recovery Touches Mins Played
Idrissa Gueye MF Everton 2016-2017 88% 12 6 22 212 270
Daniel Drinkwater MF Leicester 2016-2017 83% 8 5 37 271 270
Fernandinho MF Man City 2016-2017 87% 5 6 20 251 270
N'Golo Kanté MF Chelsea 2016-2017 95% 5 5 27 220 270
Granit Xhaka MF Arsenal 2016-2017 85% 4 5 15 206 186
Nemanja Matic MF Chelsea 2016-2017 86% 2 3 20 215 258
Paul Pogba MF Man Utd 2016-2017 85% 1 5

So far so good, Don't know about you but I've got high hopes here 🤔.

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04 Sep 2016 12:11:47
I agree ed.

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