08 Apr 2017 08:22:10
HINDSIGHT: I just wanted to put something on here regarding that well known phenomena, hindsight. It relates to a lot of criticism that has been aimed at Koeman after the last minute equaliser at Utd. Koeman has come in and taken over what I thought was a certain relegation threatened team. We had an ageing squad and in the previous 2 seasons had played the most boring football ever. We had signed players of the calibre of McGeady, Cleverly, Niasse, Lennon and a few others that I won't bother listing. Koeman immediately decided that one or two players were surplus to requirements and got rid. He also made a couple of signings that immediately added pace and quality to the squad. He added a goalkeeper with proven ability. He brought through some youth players into the 1st team squad. He actually gave a couple regular 1st team places. I don't know this for sure, but guess he introduced a new training regime. I say this because we seem to have fitter, stronger players with less hamstring injuries. He certainly introduced what some call a plan "b" which the previous manager seemed to lack. I suspect he has made a thousand decisions every day just like any football manager. My point is that he has made one or two bad decisions in that time. That is normal when you are making lots. Some will be bad and you learn from them. One decison he did make ws to switch to a back 3 and take a forward off. He has done it twice now and failed both times. Does that mean it is wrong to do that? The answer is probably yes. Hindsight tells us that. However, if the players within his squad were capable of doing it and seeing out games, it would be the right decision. Mouhrino has won numerous trophies doing exactly that sort of change. As have many managers/ teams. Yes it backfired this time. But hey let's consider the overall picture. We have lost only 8 league games all season. The quality of player and football being served up to us is just so much better than the previous 2 seasons. We look like we can score in most games. whereas last season we looked like we could play forever without scoring. Koeman has plans formore players. He has plans to take the club forwards. If he carries on at the pace he has already improved us at, we will soon be a force to be reckoned with. Hindsight is a wonderful thing for those who know everything. I trust Koeman 100% even if he does get the odd decision wrong. That is life!
08 Apr 2017 14:16:08
Agree Degs. RK has certainly got more right than wrong during his first season with us. As you say, he is going to make the odd mistake here and there, he's only human after all. I don't see as many doom mongers on fan sights as I did during the lead up to Xmas, which should indicate that even the most sceptical of EFC fans can see we are making progress under him. The next two windows, by RK's own admission, are crucial and we will have a team that he can call his own. Exciting times when you look at what FM wants for our club, I'll be happy if they continue with this progress both on and off the pitch.
08 Apr 2017 16:59:14
Totally Degsypulford2. The difference in defense is unreal. Last season even though we finished 11th our goals against were joint 15th. Only 5 teams let in more goals than us, 3 of which were relegated.
At the moment we are joint 4th best this season. That is some difference. With more or less the same defensive players. Williams aside and Stek who can't get into the team at the moment.
People expect managers to make no mistakes. I often use the great hindsight myself. I find it disturbing that a player like Barkley who is a different player since Nov be targeted after one bad game against the other half. People calling for him to be sold as soon as he has one game where he's not up to scratch.
The lad looks lean and mean. As do all the team. Fitness has a big part in our good form this season. Last season we typically lost points towards the end of match's because we weren't fit enough. This season we are winning points towards the end of match's or holding out with the team in far better shape.
The three at the back does work imho. It has worked against more teams than it hasn't. When it hasn't worked it looks bad. Like the Chelsea result and more recently the Man Utd game.
When Holgate was getting a good run it was 3 at the back mainly if my memory serves me right. Just on occasion it hasn't. People seem to remember and point out when it doesn't. Why not point it out when it does?
08 Apr 2017 17:00:23
Well the most important thing is not that you make mistakes but rather that you learn from your mistakes. Koeman is still learning about the players, what they can and can't do and how they work as a team. Some of his perceived mistakes have been due to injuries etc. when he has to experiment a little and what he may see in practice sometimes does not work in first team games. He has been very forward looking when it comes to experimenting with the young players, sometimes this has been successful and sometimes not. He will have a good idea about the improvements he needs for the squad to be successful. Now it is only a matter of persuading players to join and our board and owners to give him the financial backing that he needs. I feel comfortable about the Manager and our new scouting team, what is needed now is a professional management team that can be successful in completing the signing of the targeted players.
08 Apr 2017 20:23:03
We are where we are boys just look at the squad and the money we have or have not spent so far compared to all the teams above us. RK will get it right, he did make mistakes in the last two games, don't we all.
08 Apr 2017 21:23:28
The 3 at the back has had success against the lesser teams and teams that don't pack the midfield or when we are dominating as the wing backs advance and help the midfield.
However, we have conceded 12 goals in 4 games using it. Plus against city we conceded 2 penalties in a 90 minute Alamo.
Nothing to do with hindsight either as he had enough evidence from previous games it wasn't going to work.
I'm not killing Koeman for it but it doesn't work against these teams away from home. As I said previously he may not have the players or the players don't trust the formation enough and sit back in our box. Maybe next season it actually works for him against the big sides.
However, he made the same mistake. It's okay to call him on it. He's a big lad and can take it.
08 Apr 2017 22:08:06
The 3 at the back doesn't work without Coleman who is a natural right sided wing back/ defender and our only one.
Mason Holgate is not disciplined enough to play that role and doesn't really offer the threat going forward that Seamus does. In a flat back four you have the extra cover to help your inexperienced players like your Holgates and Penningtons.
I am a fan of Koeman, but I am critical of his obsession with the back three when the personnel isn't available to use it.
08 Apr 2017 23:18:33
Away game at Crystal Palace we won 1-0. Away to last years champions Leicester we won 2-0 and away to Stoke we drew 1-1. All with 3 at the back and Holgate playing. 7 points with 4 goals scored and 1 conceded in three games. Good return for me. CP and Stoke not top teams. Leicester top team? Debatable. Those results are not a bad return by any standards.
Best of all but it is at home. Man City 4-0 with 3 at the back. Holgate included. What has our budget been compared to City in the last 5 years 10%. Shows progress to me.
To me that's as many games it worked as it hasn't. The only way they can improve is if they are challenged. In one sense we were lucky against Utd on the other we were unlucky. Like everything else with Koeman it will take time for him to get his proper plans in motion with his players. So far the progress is good in getting the bad habits out of our last manager and getting newer better ideas in.
09 Apr 2017 05:46:53
Them games you mentioned NBTB also had Seamus Coleman in the team as the right wing back which was my point, without the correct personnel this doesn't work for us as Holgate for me is a centre half not a right back.
At Anfield we had Pennington as the right sided CB in the 3 with Holgate playing RWB, this allowed Liverpool so much space down that side due to the inexperience of them in these positions, if Holgate has to play RB it has to be in a four or with an experienced CB in the three playing Right sided, e.g Jagielka.
09 Apr 2017 07:41:45
Hey guys we are getting into details here about youth, who is better at what position, inexperience, who we were playing. so yes we are using HINDSIGHT. And yes we have only lost 8 league games all season. So Koeman's tactics are far superior to the endless boredom of 80% possession with no shots on target in games we were suffering last season. At least Koeman is having a go and experimenting and changing things around. Yes sometimes it will not work. NBTB sometimes it worked and at others it didn't. It is easy to say something didn't work because of this or that. But at least he tried. I am sure he won't make the same mistakes again. Remember earlier in the season when we had our little bad run. He accused the players of not following his instructions and playing the pressing game. That was also to do with playing the back 3. I have been a great supporter of Williams. As anorganiser he is immense. But in that game he allowed us to drop deep. Too deep. It was his job to push us out and into them. I am sure Koeman will be having a word with him about that. Like I said . Hindsight is easy.
09 Apr 2017 07:52:19
Thanks for proving my point NBTB.
09 Apr 2017 09:12:23
Often used hindsight on here before degsypulford2 and I agree with all you say above. Never said or indicated Koeman was wrong in what he was doing. He has to try these things out.
BlueJohnUns, yea I proved your point that it worked as much as it hasn't. Seems to be away to big teams it hasn't worked so far. That assumption is based on what 3 games? Don't we can totally rule it out based on those three games. As it has worked as often as not.
Tell me this, what has worked away to the big teams in the last 20 years?
09 Apr 2017 09:16:05
As degsypulford2 pointed out above at least Koeman tried and tried something different. Last manager had plan a and plan a only. Manager before that was continuously criticised for going to a 'gun fight with a knife'. Not my words.
So in the last 20 years what exactly has worked for us away to the big teams?
If Koeman doesn't try different ways he won't find one that works.
09 Apr 2017 16:30:45
NBTB he also won't know what individual players are capable of. Koeman picked and organised the team that had for 93 minutes looked like getting only our 2nd win at Old Trafford in 23 years. Yes it went wrong but at least we looked like we were going to get a result. don't know what's happening today tho. Another Bournemouth game? 6-3 anyone?
09 Apr 2017 16:55:26
Firstly against Liverpool he should have took off Pennington and put a midfielder on to stop us being overrun. Normally he is decisive when it isn't working out but I get he is nervous in a derby.
Against United he should have stayed with 4 at the back as we were controlling the game better.
I said previously on here though that its maybe that the team don't like the formation or the players don't feel comfortable and sit back too much with fear and in future we will have players who fit it better.
For me Koeman is brilliant and the best manager since Royle. He WILL take us back to the top and we WILL have a platform for him to show whether he can get 3 at the back to work.
09 Apr 2017 18:13:11
And I think that is one thing we all agree on BJU. The club is looking healthier all round.
09 Apr 2017 19:13:30
Totally guys, great result today.