Everton banter 46313


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27 Aug 2019 20:55:30
Two old northern clubs Bury and Bolton on the brink of going out of existence. These clubs and clubs like them would have existed with income coming in by selling their best players to the top teams. This obviously doesn't happen anymore due to foreign players and the ridiculous amount of money being pumped into the Premiership.
So what happens next? Do we just watch clubs from lower divisions simply disappear, or will we go back to players being part time.
Or perhaps Premier clubs could be allowed to purchase a club and run it as a development club, while playing in a competitive league. Thus maintaining its identity.
Your thoughts boys.
Thought this might make a change from slagging each other off about our club.

{Ed001's Note - my thoughts are it would not maintain its identity if it was a feeder club. It would be Everton reserves, not Bury or Bolton.}

Agree0 Disagree0

27 Aug 2019 22:49:38
I don't know a lot about bury but Bolton have been mismanaged for a very long time. It was around 150m in debt when Sam was there.

Your club, especially in the lower divisions, has to live within its means.

Could teams from the EPL help out? I don't think so. It will only drive them on to make more risky choices and live in the hope of a handout from someone else.

I think the EFL to get measures in place where the club is shared ownership with the fans. Make it mandatory. These people who run these clubs need more accountability in how they operate.

27 Aug 2019 22:57:49
Might still be better than no club at all Ed.

{Ed001's Note - I doubt it, would you follow Barcelona reserves if they bought up Everton?}

28 Aug 2019 00:06:25
I thought Barcelona were Everton’s feeder club Ed 😀.

28 Aug 2019 08:41:36
It's a really difficult problem that quite honestly I'm not sure of the answer

It's perverse in may ways that the EPL is awash with money whilst football league sides are struggling but is this any different to the 'obscene' amounts film stars, pop stars earn? Why local stores are closing whilst internet retailers are taking over?
Markets change are unfortunately happening all the time and there are winners and there are losers.

Football league sides need to adapt but what can be done to help

There is Woburns feeder club idea where Premier League clubs could purchase. We could also look at relaxing the ownership rules so that Mr Moshiri for instance could also own an FL side but what happens if the 'feeder club' gets promoted to the EPL or, even worse the EPL side gets relegated to the FL?

Could we have a regulation that a percentage of EPL television money goes into FL subsidies. Is this fair to the EPL sides? If it narrows the gap on revenue between the EPL and the FL narrower does this help offset the enormous problems that relegation causes some teams even with balloon payments (is that the right term)

Now that we are exiting the European Union could we make work permits/ restrictions on the number of non English players even harder so lower league sides could get better transfer fees for their home developed players?

Whatever the answer is it's not going to be easy. The FL sides have to get better at growing and managing their finances and there might be an impact on EPL sides revenues which they might not be willing to accept.

{Ed002's Note - There have been discussions as to whether to allow ownership of clubs as "feeder" clubs beyond the way it works now - mainly in Europe. Firstly it means scrapping the Premier League 2 idea completely. Secondly, with "elite" clubs eventually breaking away there is a reality a lot of the commercial funding available will go with them. As I have explained before, for me an eventual a breakaway pan-European league would force the restructuring of many of the national leagues, possibly resulting in a British league with perhaps only a couple of professional tiers and then regionalised amateur leagues below that. Financially I do not see that so many pro sides can be sustained within the sport which, like it or not, will see more and more money going in to the highest levels of the game. Governments will ensure that grassroots sport get funding but everything in the middle (Southern, Northern, Conference, Division 2, Scottish Divisions 1-3, League of Wales will not get the funding needed to continue on any sort of professional basis. For me, clubs should already recognise this and put their efforts in to getting there finances in order to see if they can make it to a British professional league that will need to flourish without perhaps six sides that have eventually gone down the pan-European route - and have gone for good (it would be two or perhaps three initially). Clubs like Accrington Stanley will need to carry on as amateurs or face extinction (yet again). Hartlepool has been struggling - again it needs to adapt. Bury will be expelled from the league and will likly need to be would up to adress the close to £10M debt. Bolton will likely scrape by. The mighty Third Lanark have started their long journey back to the top - it can be done.}

28 Aug 2019 13:09:18
Hi Ed 002
Its quite possible that what you describe will come true but I have doubts if a Euro Super League will actually work.

Lets say the top 10 (or more) clubs in Europe do break away. Would they play each other 3 or 4 times a season to make it the same number of games that they play now. Would there be promotion/ relegation and how would that work?

Would I want to watch it? As a sports fan yes - just the same as I want to watch Wimbledon or the Ashes or the Ryder Cup but would I pay for it? If Everton wasn't in the group the answer would be no. I might watch the odd game, the same way I watch La Ligua but only because its free option with SKY or BT Sports. Would I still want to watch Everton? Yes, but would the Premier League have the same cache and would I pay the current Sky Subscriptions - dubious. I'm not sure it would generate the same total revenue as the current set up

This might all be because I am getting on and will always be an Evertonian and whilst I like watching other teams I want to see my team play in whatever league they play in. Maybe in 20 years time my great grandchildren will be quite happy supporting Barcelona from the UK but I have my doubts

There might be room for a Super League at the start or end of the season but I think there are problems with that as well logistically once you start thinking about it.

As I said I don't know the answers. I don't even know half the bloody questions but would be interested in yours or anybody else's take on what I have said.

{Ed002's Note - The numbers involved is a lot more than 10 and the logistics are been discussed at length on numerous occasions. I have no idea what you mean about paying for it - if you are watching Sky and BT Sports you are already paying to watch football. I have explained on many occasions what is being proposed.}

28 Aug 2019 14:06:52
Hi Ed

Read my third paragraph

I'm basically saying that if I am paying £30 a month now I wouldn't pay extra for a super League and not sure I would be willing to still pay £30 for Everton in a lesser league.

In my opinion it could just move more people to streaming sites which yet another discussion

Let's not fall out about it. I've not really looked into it and was only answering the Bury question but if there are any links to your previous answers I would be interested if you could point me to them


{Ed002's Note - It remains very much an on-going issue with regular discussions on the matter up to 21 “elite” European clubs (including three from England) who meet to discuss a variety of issues a couple of times a year. Without going in to too much detail:
(a) A number of clubs take the opportunity to meet and discuss various issues including changes in rules, club versus country issues, television and other media rights, the power of UEFA, exploitation issues for new technology streams, etc.. The meetings were annually but now they happen two and sometimes three times a year. There was a meeting in December – where there was a discussion about the state of FIFA, the situation with UEFA and a so far unpublished claim from a retired referee that the result of a Champions League game was influenced by a third party. These discussions also always turn to the possibility and structure of a breakaway pan European league. Several are ex-G14 clubs, several are not, and some clubs decline involvement in such discussions.
(b) The plan is that at some point a number of clubs would break away from their national leagues and UEFA. They accept that they would be banned from all existing club competition and the players would initially be banned from all FIFA competitions as well, but know that FIFA would be looking to negotiate in any case. It would be the end of UEFA in all probability and UEFA are very aware of this. It would also result in a restructuring of many of the national leagues.
(c) The clubs would renegotiate their television and media rights, rights of distribution via other streams etc..
(d) It remains the greatest fear of UEFA and all major national authorities that one day this will happen – which has resulted in a counter-proposal being drafted by UEFA.
(e) Timing wise, two very prominent clubs wanted it to happen as soon as possible (2021) and they have the support of a third club - but most are looking at 2023 to 2025 being a good option. A few clubs are looking at 2025 to 2028 and I suspect that could end up as the reality.}

There are two/three counter-proposals to the pan-European breakaway that have partially been backed by UEFA to try and save their own skin. The first proposal is to rename and change the format of the UEFA Champions League to make it an elite closed-shop pan-European league with a fixed number of teams – and these would be the same teams every year and be based on past winners of the Champions League and European Cup and a few (not specified) more. It would then require the restructuring of the Europa League and the possible introduction of a lower-tier European competition again. Although they have yet to flesh out the detail and there is now a major concern that the impetus for this is not coming from Europe, although one major Football Association has given their support and discussions have also been held with the leading clubs from England (Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal). The American backer, Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins, has on several occasions requested a meeting with an extant group of sides considering the pan-European breakaway to discuss his proposals. They have yet to respond but having identified the source of much of the funding (and that raising a concern) will wish to discuss it between themselves first. This has dragged on for a year or more and nothing has happened - and I doubt it wil.

However, UEFA are now considering a variant proposal that would see some places in the CL fixed (probably to previous winners) and then see it supplemented by Champions and second place sides each season. This complicates matters again as it means the re-introduction of a third competition or the significant restructuring of the EL. The plan being put to clubs is a summer/preseason tournament that will evolve in to a parallel league, and of course eventually in to a complete breakaway for these clubs. As a first step to all of this, UEFA have negotiated minor changes that will see the four entrants from England, Germany, Spain and Italy enter the existing Champions League group stages without any qualification beyond their National League position (so no entry to qualifying rounds). This has been agreed by the European Club Association but UEFA did not want to discuss it with the separate group of “elite” sides discussing the Pan European League (and that “elite” group includes three English sides) as they are aware they will get no more than a shrug and no long-term support - and that is where we are now.

The second major counter proposal is a Chinese proposal from the Dalian Wanda Group proposes to open up the lucrative Chinese and Far Eastern media markets by extending the league to include Chinese and South American clubs. This has yet to be discussed by the "elite" sides as a group although the proposals have been presented to a number of them already on an individual basis. The proposals are very broad-based and lack detail - their selling point is significant additional income for the "elite". The general feeling from informal discussions over cocktails is that the "elite" would not want it on a league basis but could be open to including other sides in a some sort of expanded World Club

If the proposal for a breakaway goes ahead, there is every likelihood that the big money from television, sponsorship etc. would go with a breakaway league. It would completely rupture the operations of UEFA and I would expect it would require national associations like the FA to restructure their leagues. Nobody wants this but it is the eventual consequence I would expect. Initially it could be that there is a single 16 team league with 2 or 3 EPL teams making the initial plunge. If I had to speculate, I would think (1) you might eventually see something like five or six EPL teams leave for two-tier pan European league - but it won't be based on the UEFA rankings; (2) the Premier League would be disbanded as an organisation; (3) the FA would restructure in to two 20 team divisions with lower leagues regionalised as they were many years ago; (4) FIFA would ban all players from the breakaway teams from International football - perhaps rescinding that position to stop FIFA breaking up as well - they don't want further issues but the troubles are not going to go away. I could also see many teams lose their professional status. I would think we are probably 10 years away from any significant move at this time.

The next round of discussions are on Friday morning.}

28 Aug 2019 15:04:04
Well that started a good debate. Now wasn’t that nicer than moaning all the Time?

28 Aug 2019 17:20:46
Without going into too much detail, made me chuckle that 😂 😂.

28 Aug 2019 20:54:05
thanks ED

I'll take it to the beach as reading material

Appreciate you sending it.

28 Aug 2019 22:29:15
How do you see that working with the elite teams buying players from the other teams.
How would that work? The player moving would have to give up the right to play in the afcon, world cup, euros and so on. Surely that would cause some issues Ed?

{Ed002's Note - Not in the longer term.}



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