04 Apr 2018 18:27:28
My goodness it is sometimes tough being an Evertonian. That much I know after 50 years of loyal support. The ups and the downs are hard to take. especially the downs. But sometimes I do despair at our own support. I see below criticism of the club for appointing Pienaar as International Club Ambassador. There has been criticism of our signing of Walcott and particularly Cenk Tosun. There has been criticism of the proposal of a new stadium at times. Criticism of Bill Kenwright taking money out of the club. Criticism by some Ed's on here that some of our fans are "toxic". Criticism of the last 3 managers. Criticism of the last 4 managers actually. no make that 10 managers! The point I am trying to make is that we have been in the top flight only 2nd to the mighty Arsenal. In itself that is a testimony to the heirarchy of our great club. Yes the years have been lean of late. Yes we have made some mistakes. But whilst I ackknowledge that Moshiri has come in with some financial support, some supporters seem to think this means instant success in every way. Reality suggests we will need slow gradual growth akin to previous successful periods. It will be a coming together of many things. Youth, finances, Ground, players signed, cup success, community support and the one thing needed by every club. support. That does not come by people constantly moaning about every decision the club makes. It comes as it says on the tin. with support. I know that is tough at times. but to whinge and moan at every decision the club makes. no wonder Ed002 says we sometimes have "toxics" on here. It is like a negative drip feed. and I will stop at that because I am starting to sound like one myself!
04 Apr 2018 21:01:48
The mighty Arsenal have not been in the top flight longer than us. We hold that record. They hold the record for never being out of the top flight. Not being picky degs, just proud of the stat.
04 Apr 2018 21:03:46
Stop criticising the critics on here Degsy! 😂.
04 Apr 2018 21:06:19
I don't think i have seen any posters on here that I would say have constantly moaned about every decision. I think you are reading a group of posts of different people criticising different aspects and in your head it seems like people are constantly moaning about everything.
I like to think I have got to know something of the mindset of regular posters on here, a bit like i would a friend or colleagues.
You get to know what their general views of different aspects of the club are. What they like and dislike. Who has similar opinions to yourself and who doesn't.
We cannot just not criticise and accept every decision of the club, manager or players. Yes we support and we always will but, we have to ask questions too. And if we disagree with a decision of the club, we have the right to constructively criticise that decision, be that on here, or any social media.
04 Apr 2018 21:50:28
All fair points. but I would still say one or two just seem to moan about everything and I wonder why they bother. if something made me constantly miserable. I would change something. Hey Grumpy if you are still reading. make a comment somewhere.
04 Apr 2018 23:09:24
My point about the manager below Degsy is, wouldn't you want a manager of our club to sound like Coleman? Or would you prefer Moyes comment saying we were already beaten because we're not good enough.
I'm not much of a defeatist. I said the other day that I have no doubt at all that we will be at the top of football again. However, I don't like managers who play for anything other than a win and won't accept a defeatist mentality.
Can we not lose the word toxic on here when describing supporters though? It's getting shoehorned in to describe people simply making points that some don't agree with. Its very insulting to genuine people making a comment.
I think we know what ED meant when he said it. Let's try to be more original.
05 Apr 2018 00:01:17
Great post degsy, moan about the moaners is that not hypocritical? Everybody is entitled to an opinion and it is just that, a personal opinion just like yours is and the word toxic is just ridiculous because if something is toxic it is likely to kill and words cannot do that. I don't hate SA I dislike his tactics and management, I am not toxic I am passionate. I am not saying the post was aimed at any poster in particular but I have complained before about SA and his negativity so thought I would just defend my reasons.
05 Apr 2018 05:36:17
Who are these one or two Degsyp? Are you one of them because all your posts are either about toxic supporters who you don't name or about the clubs abysmal buying policy no left back cover, no new striker following Lukaku, no replacement for Barkley, only one left footer. All perfectly valid comments but critical all the same.
But no one calls you toxic or sad so please stop calling all supporters with a different viewpoint to you toxic as its not helping.
Can we please have some constructive discussions on this site?
05 Apr 2018 08:24:33
Calm down guys. I was just trying to instigate some perspective. Not really aimed at any one in particular. I will answer BJU on the winning mentality thing though. when Moyes used his knives against guns analogy (if that is what he said? ) I guess he was trying to sort of rally the troops. I do believe that Moyes was a winner. I also believe he saved us from relegation when he arrived. I had been pretty sure we were going down that season and with about 5 games to go we got the results needed. We then in all bar one season hovered arounfd 6th in the league. Got into many cup quater finals and a couple of semis and one final. Beating very good Man Utd teams and occasionally beating Liverpool. The top 4 at that time were bankrolled significantly by Russian money, Sky money and American money. We were fighting by buying quality players cheap then selling them on expensively. We almost got into that top 4 by doing this. Yes I know that was then and this is now. but have we improved on our league positions since him? Have we had better cup runs since him? Have we improved in any area since him? I would say we improved with the signing of Lukaku. Maybe Barry was also a good temporary signing. I would add that the fact that our 3 best defenders are Jags, Baines and Coleman. ex Moyes signings and are basically too old now . well maybe Coleman has 2 more seasons in him. but where will we find another 3 players like that now? Go through the players we signed under Moyes and had for some years. Ones that are miles better than what we have since signed, Stones, Arteta, Cahill, Fellaini, Gravesen, Donovan, Distin, Baines, Jags, Coleman, Yobo, Yakubu, Pienaar, Neville, Carsley, Lescott, Howard, Fernandes. whilst some were on loan and some signings did not work out. compare that lot with what we have now and that lot would have stuffed any of our squads (Lukaku excepted) in the last 6 years. Before I get berated for saying this. you asked. so I answered.
05 Apr 2018 08:54:56
Only at EFC could you get moaners moaning about moaning! Classic! It's not that our fans are toxic they just like a good whinge and some of them are pretty good at it. If some of the squad would show as much passion on the pitch as some of us do whinging on this forum we would be in a much better place.
{Ed025's Note - your dead right sa..
05 Apr 2018 09:26:00
At least we got another 5 minute lecture/ moan from Degsyp on the failings of Everton's transfer policy since Moyes left.
05 Apr 2018 10:03:21
Yes because all Moyes signings were top class weren't they. Not. Listen we have a new guy coming in as DoF so our transfer policy will have a massive positive overhaul as we will finally have a DoF who is proven in the role. This season has been a shambles and one to forget but the good news is the man at the top has seen this and is making the right moves to get it right.
05 Apr 2018 10:47:06
He didn't win 1 game away from home against the top 4 in 11 years! Plus no mention of 1 trophy win in 11 years! Not much of a winner for me.
Where you measure our current teams against Moyes I measure them against winning managers like Royle and Kendall who were true winners.
I loved some of the players we had during Moyes era but they didn't win a thing so I won't put them any higher than the ones now. Measure success with trophies. That's my point below.
Moyes did say knife at a gun fight, also other comments like he's took us as far as he can because of OUR limitations. Oh and how we should allow players to leave for bigger clubs to further the players career.
I won't deny he done a job in saving the club from relegation but don't tell me he improved our reputation or improved our mentality back into winners. The man was a scab on our club and has left a wound that will take time to heal. 11 years was 6 or 7 years too long.
05 Apr 2018 10:51:24
Agreed Bluegray. Let's just hope the rumours are true. 1st step on the road back.
05 Apr 2018 11:35:44
BW2412 if you read Degsy's post instead of dissecting it, you will see what it is he is trying to say. He states that ED002 has stated some fans are toxic, he himself has not said he thinks the fans are toxic.
If you are an advocate of naming and shaming and that the so called "Toxic" fans should be named then allow me to offer a few words of caution, by naming individuals, it will only do more harm than good and actually drive people away from this site. There is a reason why the Ed's do not participate in this practise.
Degsy actually raises some good points in his post, or at least that's how I read it, He states or implies that since Moyes has left we have not had a Manager doing an equal or better job at Everton, regardless of the fact that they have had better resources at their disposal. They are his views and opinions and as such should not be berated for them.
05 Apr 2018 11:42:39
I liked your post Degsy it was a good read I'm 39 and I have followed Everton since my first breath. I'm a season ticket holder and I will support the players even the ones I deem not good enough while they wear the blue shirt I won't leave games early and I don't Boo (but I have no problem with fans booing they pay a lot of money supporting our club). anyway Degs good post mate.
05 Apr 2018 11:57:50
Grumpy
Degsyp in his post said that he would still say that one or two just
seem to moan about everything.
I don't believe that is the case and he is grouping various posts by a lot of people and coming to the wrong conclusion which is why I called him out and asked who he is talking about.
Quite frankly all this 'toxic' talk does the club no good at all and it's about time it was stopped.
We are all entitled to our opinions and, yes, Degsyp does make some good points about Everton transfer policy. I probably agree with a lot of it. He has good, valid arguments, points of view - you could even call them moans.
That does not make him toxic, nor is anyone else with a point of view so can we all stop and start having constructive discussions. That means ALL of us, you and Degsyp, me included, not berating people.
05 Apr 2018 12:07:53
Good reply BW2412 mate,
Fully agree it's time we all had a group hug and moved on.
I even gave you a thumbs up :-)
05 Apr 2018 12:14:35
Well there's a first. Gave you one back.
05 Apr 2018 13:18:52
Can I get in on the hugging action?
05 Apr 2018 13:27:12
I am all for the group hug. Especially this weekend when the ball hits the redside's net (posh version! ) . Seriously. I only answered because BJU asked the question. I do believe that in Moyes' time, we were restricted by monetary factors which are less relevant today. But I also feel we are in a worse position. so although yes we won nothing. under the circumstances, I thought Moyes left a decent squad behind. I also think it ahs deteriorated since. If that is construed as moaning. my God you have never heard me. because believe me guys. I can moan like a banshee with fire in her belly!
05 Apr 2018 14:05:59
I have fond memories of the Moyes era as I felt that at least we challenged during it.
Yes I think he stayed a year or two too long but was that him or the board.
Yes I think he was wrong the way he went after Baines and Fellaini. I think when we see his memoirs he would admit and say he did it wrong but if Fonseca does come to us would we not expect him to try and bring some of his old players.
Was he as good as Kendall - no in my view
Was he better than Martinez or Koeman -I think so
Was he better than Big Sam - YEH! obviously
It's all about opinions isn't it.
05 Apr 2018 16:18:50
For the favours you have done for me this season Smit mate you get the first invite when the hugging starts.
05 Apr 2018 17:51:16
To be fair Degsy not once did I say you were moaning. I just had a difference of opinion on Moyes and winners.
My only other point was to stop mentioning toxic to infer or describe fellow supporters. I think you're better than that and usually don't normally question somebody's reason for starting/ joining a debate and instead offer another point of view. That's why I like you.
05 Apr 2018 18:05:52
Cheers Grumpy. You are welcome.
05 Apr 2018 20:24:04
Hey guys no problems with any of the comments and maybe I have overstated a few things. I will certainly drop the toxic moans from now on. And I am not sure my original post came over the way it was supposed to. I was not really bigging Moyes up. more like saying that things had gone downwards since. yet we have had money available since. I already get that Moyes was not everyone's cup of tea. My point was more aimed at the state of the squad now compared to what he left behind for Martinez. We have gone through players at such a rate and are now relying on oldies and kids. I also apologise if I have been grouping people together with certain posts. No offence meant chaps. AndI do respect everyone's views on here. I just get a bit cheesed at times when I read posts constantly criticising the board. We all tend to forget that the club are indeed doing so much in the community, are trying to get our old glory days back and basically working hard trying to do what we all want.
05 Apr 2018 23:14:52
I'm telling you now Degsy and take this as written law, with fans like you, me and everyone on here WE will bring glory days back to this club. Its people like us here that make such a difference. Some might not think so but we are the passionate ones. The ones that take time to share thoughts and views. Try to convince that the grass can be greener.
You should big Moyes up if you want to. If you think it's gone down the pan since that's fine. Tell me I'm a div for not thinking so. Maybe I am. I don't know everything, just most thingsðŸ˜
However, do not ever keep it inside. None of you on here. don't be Be afraid to say what you want to say. Its important to get it off your chest good or bad.
But believe this. It's going to happen. This club is going to improve. We will get back to the top and how do I know? Just take a look in the mirror. And when you've been to our home and cheered these boys on and stood as the 12th man you'll know why.
Take a load off guys, and be proud to be who we all are -Evertonians.
{Ed0333's Note - I applaud your jingoism mate.
06 Apr 2018 07:29:08
I'm having that as my word of the day ED. Right I'm off to take on Trump, Kim Jong Un and that bloke that keeps parking in my driving speck in work. Rrrrraaaaaahhhhhh!
{Ed0333's Note - Is the guy that parks in your parking space called Sam and has he got a big blue bus? Only joking mate. Glad you like jingoism fella it’s one of my favorite words.
Good luck for the game tommorow mate and let’s hope we get a veritable feast of football and let the best team win. I seriously think you have a good chance of winning tommorow as I’m hoping we’ll rest 6-8 players as we have a date with destiny on Tuesday.