05 Sep 2016 13:57:04
This ongoing debate about how there were more goals from players DM recruited versus goals from players RM recruited surely is an unsatisfiable one.
Moyes was 11 years at the club, whereas Martinez was just 3. So to compare player stats between the two eras would be misleading and unfair, simply because players under Moyes would have played more games than those under Martinez.
Or am I missing something.
It's a good debate, but difficult to satisfy.
05 Sep 2016 15:05:46
The point Degsy is trying to make is over the midfielders scoring more goals under Moyes. However, he didn't have a 20 goals a season striker and therefore we had to compensate through the midfield.
When you have a goalscorer you focus your final third play through him. If you don't have a Lukaku you have someone like Fellani or Victor there to hold up the ball and bring in the midfielders.
However, they are both different ways of playing and as long as you score goals then you are OK in this department. Me and pretty much every other person on the planet saw that the issues with Everton over the past few years was at the back and if anything needed improving it was with how to defend.
4 goals in three games but only 2 against, 7 points, 0 goals from Lukaku.
Martinez had two out three of our highest scoring seasons under both Martinez and Moyes put together. Last season was our third highest scoring season in 20 years!
However, at the back he had two of the highest seasons in conceding goals.
Sort out the back and you get the points!
05 Sep 2016 15:09:07
That was my thinking exactly when the numbers Cahill scored were compared to say Mccarthy. End of the day the players and squad we have now is much better than what we had with Moyes and add to that the manager we have is better than Moyes and the setup is much better than Moyes. I've said it before David Moyes was good for Everton for the first 4 years to stabilise us but then we should have brought somebody in to take us to the next level, a lot like what West Ham did with Allardyce. Would I rather be watching Lukaku or Bent? Delboy or Drenthe? Barkley or Simon Davies? Think we all know the answer to that.
05 Sep 2016 15:21:07
Even though I'm in the thick of it Toffee ace I have to agree! I certainly don't wish to continue it anymore. As I said in my last post we'll have to agree to disagree.
05 Sep 2016 16:23:57
What I would do for a Timmy Cahill right now. Even just for the Derby.
05 Sep 2016 17:16:44
I just have to chipback in becuse of things being attributed to points I am apparently trying to make. I will try and explain in very simple terms. Originally I stated that the squad that Martinez inherited then deteriorated. This is the only point I was trying to make and all the valid pints made by other posters I accept. Particularly the point by BlueJohnUns about different ways of playing. but I would add that the squad he inherited was better because of one fact. Players in the original team came and went and goals were shared. Martinez then signed a large number of players who have played many years scoring very low goal to game ratios and others who show potential yet have not scored high goals per game ratios. He relied to a high degree for goals from Lukaku and Barkley. When Lukau was out of form or injured we struggled. In the team from before (I really don't want to mention Moyes) goals were shared thoughout. So no one player was more critical. ie the squad had a better stronger balance of goalscorers. Without Lukaku's goals over the last 3 seasons, we would have really struggled. Much lower than the 11th that we made last 2 seasons.
05 Sep 2016 19:35:39
I give up. Only so many times I can keep repeating myself. Falling on deaf ears. Its amazing Degsy I must I made the same point as BlueJohnUns about 10 times and you wouldn't even acknowledge it. As soon as he says it once you say you agree, as above.
05 Sep 2016 21:26:36
Okey Dokey. One last go. Fellani scored 11 league in Moyes last season and we scored 55 goals.
In Martinez last season Lukaku scored 18 goals and we scored 59 league goals and take 7 off that means we scored 52. The difference is 3 goals and is still within usual amount of goals we score most seasons.
12 league scorers in Martinez's last season 11 in Moyes last season. 22 goals midfielders for Moyes and 26 goals midfielders for Martinez.
Now more importantly: 9 players: Fellani, Osman, Jelly, Naismith, Pienaar, Anichebe, Distin, Neville and Vellios: 30 Assists
8 players: Lukaku, Cleverley, Kone, Lennon, McCarthy, Barry, Deulofeu, Mori: 34 Assists
Nothing too drastic. FACTS!
05 Sep 2016 21:53:26
Like I said before BlueJohnUns I agree. Not much difference there at all. Doesn't look to deteriorating to me.
05 Sep 2016 21:56:19
Wow. sorry NBTB for not taking notice of you mate. Wow BlueJohnUns. some amazing statistics. I admire you for unearthing them. But I amnot sure on the one statistic you list of 26 goals for midfielders in Martinez last season? That does not ring true to me. Who are you counting as midfielders? Whoever you list is irrelevant as my point specifically relates to lack of goals from Cleverly, Barry, McCarthy and Besic. The 4 central midfielders that Martinez brought in. Ok Barkley (who was already here) scored a few. As did Lennon (a traditional winger in my view same as Mirallas) let's drop it now eh guys?
05 Sep 2016 21:57:31
Oh and NBTB I acknowledged your fact ages ago. chill mate.
05 Sep 2016 22:51:16
Oh well. Good debate mate. Fills some of the boredom of the international break.
Can't wait to just get back to playing again. Feels like it's gone on forever and we've still got a week to go!
06 Sep 2016 08:28:46
Degsy you old wind up lol . . Oh and if you ignore this I promise I won't get mad at you ðŸ˜.
06 Sep 2016 10:28:49
I can't help myself.
One final point. You are talking about central midfielders now?!
Well Neville never scored, Gibson got 1 and Osman got 5. McCarthy got 2 and Cleverley got 2, Barry and Besic didn't score. So your point is over 2 goals?
Pienaar is left wing, Cahill the Barkley role although further forward and you don't want to consider these players by your post above.
Pages and pages over 2 goals. Are you crazy?!
06 Sep 2016 11:31:36
ok I don't agree with all of your definitions of positions of players BlueJohnUns. eg Neville played a lot of games left back and right back. Cahill covered the pitch far more than Barkley and was certainly a better defender and better in the air. Not as creative and less natural ability tho. And I am not responsible for all your posts so don't give me the pages and pages for 2 goals thing lol. Have some peace for a few days guys. I am away camping now. hididng from everyone! lol.
06 Sep 2016 23:13:33
Have a good holiday mate. Back in time for Sunderland and another 3 points 😉.
07 Sep 2016 03:15:19
Moyes did not have a 20 goal striker to support the midfield. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Yakubu notch 21 goals for Everton, which included missing January with the acn and being dropped for coming back late.