06 Feb 2018 19:18:06
People talking about Rafa. People questioning Big Sam. People asking why Lookman was allowed to go. People asking why Del boy was allowed to go. Who we should sign. Who we should release or sell. One thing that sticks out a mile for me is we have turned into something that resembles a revolving door. Managers coming and going. Players coming and going. Then questioning why we are inconsistent. I am not saying that some of the players we got in since Moyes are good or bad. but Martinez brought a load in. Then he got rid of some. He also allowed the squad to age. mainly the 1st team. Then he fell out with Eto'o. Then Barkley and Lukaku wanted out. Then we had some terrible injuries to key players. Then Koeman took over and said one or two players were just not good enough and signed a load of his own. Then he went and Allergy came in. He immediately signed 3 new players. Just a question. can no one else see the theme that is playing out here? Talk is of inconsistancy. Of course there is inconsistancy. We need to give either this manager time to sort. or get rid as soon as our premier status is secured and get a manager in to last 10 years like Moyes did. We need a time of settlement. We have some great kids on the verge of being 1st team regulars. We need someone to allow them to develop and add a couple here and there. in the way all top clubs do. Man City, Spurs etc had about 10 years to get their current teams together. We are still picking players who were regulars 10 years ago and adding kids to them. Few are at their peak development. and a few in my opinion are just not good enough. But surely we need a time of stabilisation now. Not another 4/ 5new players each transfer window and a new manager every couple of years.
06 Feb 2018 19:31:42
I have to disagree Degsy. To get to the top, we are going to have to take steps, ruthless steps, and unfortunately that means buying the level of players we can for the position we are in and getting a manager to suit that aim. Once/ if we improve we then need to take the next step up in player/ manager. Buy a better calibre of player and when we start to slip, change.
It's the way it has to be if we are to compete in this ruthless game. Chelsea, city, liverpool and to some extent man u and Tottenham have all done it and succeeded. Arsenal are showing why a long term manager is getting a less and less successful plan.
The days of ferguson, Wenger and moyes are well and truly dead. Too much is at stake.
06 Feb 2018 19:41:54
Good post Smit mate.
06 Feb 2018 21:05:50
Well Smit666, I could give you lists of clubs who have tried the revolving door approach and failed. Newcastle, Birmingham, Wolves, both Sheffield Clubs, Notts Forest, Derby, Leeds Middlesborough, Bolton, Sunderland all had a fast change policy during Moyes' reign. And you quote Arsenal as an example of failure?
FA Cup winners 3 times in the last 4 years. Charity Shield 2 times in the last 3 years. A wonderful new stadium paid for by organic growth in the main. Ok I accept they have not won the title for 14 years. But they have consistently been top 4. Liverpool and Man Utd and Spurs are now joining the clubs who have not won it for a while because of the money influx. But hey if you think all this change is good for a club. You keep shouting for it. I personally think steady progress is the way forwards.
06 Feb 2018 21:55:59
Apart from Newcastle none of them are in the prem.
I'll give you some. Watford, Southampton, palace, west ham. All in the prem, all chop and change. I don't see the logic in your argument.
Arsenal are on the decline.
Name a consistently successful team that has succeeded in the modern day prem?
06 Feb 2018 22:13:36
No doubt that you are correct delay, we need a manager who will be with us for a long period, the problem is that it will not be Allardyce.
06 Feb 2018 22:56:44
Sorry smit. I agree with degsy on this one. Would prefer a manager to come in and rebuild the club from under 9s up to first team with an identity and style of play. Would love a manager (not sam) to stay for say 10 years to create success (hopefully) and develop a squad (which takes time) and train an assistant to step into his shoes when he leaves.
You mention arsenal. Wenger has done a great job there but he's probs my stayed 10 years too long which is why I think 10 years is plenty for a manger before fresh ideas are needed.
07 Feb 2018 00:03:34
I've been known in the past as one of the biggest critics of Degsy's views. However I completely agree with him and posted the other day with a similar sentiment to this. We have a massive squad full of players, many of whom have never played together apart from in training.
It takes time to galvanise a squad. Moyes' squad was relatively successful as it had an identity, players who all knew each other inside out and all worked hard for each other. They all knew what was expected of them. Unfortunately we were just missing one or two class players at the time and were unable to obtain them due to financial constraints.
This is why I've been banging on about how the inconsistency is down to the squad being too big and the managers chopping and changing the tactics all the time. The only time we've fielded a settled team and formation for more than two consecutive games was Allardyce's first few games, which was funnily enough our best run this season.
I'm not saying we wouldn't have lost on Saturday, but I'm certain had Fat Sam fielded the same team that beat Leicester (minus Coleman who had the flu) , then we wouldn't have been battered. He needs to decide what his best team is (hopefully not including Schneiderlin and Williams) and give them a run of games together to build an identity and confidence.
07 Feb 2018 08:54:22
The reason I listed all the Championship teams was exactly to prove my point Smit666. They were ALL Premiership clubs a few years ago and all of them went on a spending spree relevant to the day. They all had changes of management ant structure in exactly the way we are now. Then they all got relegated. At the time, they were all considered big clubs. And if we are talking about today's big clubs. I remember Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City all in the division below us. Nottingham Forest won the European Cup 2 years running as well as the then First division. Arsenal have been in the top flight as the only club longer than us. and until recently we were known as a club that supported their manager and gave him a chance. not wanted him out after 8 games. after he had moved us up the table by about 7 positions and an absolutely terrible run with the previous manager. We also have to consider nationality of players and languages they speak. for training and communication on the pitch. Back to Arsenal. they have been top 4 now 20 years consecutively. If you think that shows a lack of ambition or a team being unsuccesful because of keeping one manager then I cannot argue with you? They went a whole season without losing a game during this time. Their trophy cabinet is only second to Man Utd. When Chelsea and Man Utd got relegated, they also had suffered lots of changes of manager. I could go on and on with examples. but you are right that sometimes when a ship is sinking, it does need a change of skipper. I just think as a club, we have had change after change after change. In chairman, players, philosophy and manager. I think now is the time to steady the ship or we will. and I will use an old saying. throw the baby out with the bathwater.
07 Feb 2018 09:09:11
Oh one addition. we had a manager called Howard Kendall a few years back and we were down near the bottom of the league and most fans wanted him sacked. He had been with us a few years and things were looking bad. We had started each of his seasons poorly, but then put good runs together that took us up the table and we had finished 8th, and 8th and 7th. Many fans were not happy. But the chairman stood by the manager and after a result whereby we nicked a draw at lowly Oxford Utd, we went on to our most successful period ever. I know times are different, but even in todays time, both Mna City and Spurs have taken some years to assemble their squads. as did Chelsea and Man Utd are also going through it now. It takes time for teams to gel. It also takes a mix of age groups of players. Young, at their peak and mature. We seem to have lacked players at their peak. Just another thought!