16 Feb 2024 12:35:06
Why is it taking so long for a decision to be made on our appeal? It's been two weeks now. Even VAR works quicker than this. Surely a decision has been made, just bloody tell us what it is.
16 Feb 2024 13:26:04
Because the whole thing is a mess. Not giving any excuse for Everton over-spending but Masters and the PL have dug themselves a hole from which it is going to be difficult to extract themselves. The last thing anyone wants is too many regulations (including VAR) , litigation between clubs, relegation or league position being due to financial irregularities rather than how a team performs. It's going to be interesting to see how they get themselves out of this situation but whatever they do now they are not going to please everyone, or probably nobody.
{Ed002's Note - The deduction, the appeal and the next charge are not being handled by the Premier League. They are not in a mess, Everton are.}
16 Feb 2024 13:52:37
Not sure you really believe that ED002.
Agree as a football club we are a complete and utter car crash, however the PL, although not directly involved in the appeal, nor the initial hearing, have indirectly steered the appeal panel to come up with a 10 point deduction.
This now puts them in a situation whereas to set a precedent. This is causing the issue as they see no spending in January on transfers from the PL Teams, calls for City to be relegated, stripping money out of the PL, potentially forcing the big 6 to breakaway.
This is how I and many in the press see it, and I do believe something needs to give if they are to save face.
Not sure about the 10 points back, however think it may be reduced and some carried for future charges, consequently still having us with a 10 point deduction but over 2 charges.
We should have gone in to administration, taken the hit, reduced exposure and come back stronger in a couple of years. Just my opinion.
{Ed002's Note - No they have not steered anything - they made a recommendation of 12 points if Everton were found guilty. And they were. This does not set a precedent, each matter referred to an independent poanel is assessed on the merits of the case and nothing more. Administration was an option.}
16 Feb 2024 14:14:13
Either way, all parties would be served well by a speedy resolution.
{Ed002's Note - They have not started hearing the second charge now.}
16 Feb 2024 15:52:32
Agree to disagree ed002, if my paymasters inferred a 12 point deduction then that would influence the way in which any penalty would go.
If m sure if they’d inferred a transfer ban and a big fine then that’s the way they had gone.
All options and no disrespect to you or any others with different opinions.
Guess it’s all too emotive for us football fans and reasoning goes out of the window.
{Ed002's Note - No, they are independent and led by leading barrister. The Everton fans think there is corruption - there isn’t. The constant whining comes largely from the fans simply not understanding anything at all related to the finances nor the process for ensure clubs remain profitable and financially sustainable. It is embarrassing.}
16 Feb 2024 15:57:40
Clear as mud ay? It’s easy to understand why fans, not just Everton fans, feel the club have been harshly treated, a general lack of transparency from all parties. Keep picking up points and see what happens then, I’m done dwelling on it tbh.
{Ed002's Note - What lack of transparency? The club know exactly the situation and the point of the appeal is to determine if the punishment was too harsh, or even too lenient. I am astonished you can’t grasp this.}
16 Feb 2024 17:07:31
There is no reason as to why this is taking so long. Independent panel? Rubbish, the Premiership have their print all over this. Anyone who thinks they haven’t is deluded.
{Ed025's Note - im with you Woburn, im not expecting a lot from them if im honest mate...the term"thick as thieves" comes to mind..
16 Feb 2024 19:25:46
“Too lenient” surely nobody in football can think the punishment was too lenient?
{Ed002's Note - so you don’t want a fair appeals process? This is getting so embarrassing.}
16 Feb 2024 21:30:27
It's a fair assumption that Everton will likely get some points back. How many is down to the 2nd independant panel. Probability says it is more. likely to be reduced than increased.
If Everton do still get points reduced then forest will too. Their challenge will be they could have sold the player earlier but wouldn't have got the price they wanted. If that's accepted (which it wont)
Everton could argue that the Gordon sale if done in early summer when we had an offer from another club we would have banked that money, albeit less and not breached P/ S by 19.5mill but we sold In the following January of the next financial year.
Forest will most likely get a similar or higher points penalty.
Reduced on appeal but their breach is well over the 19.5mill we have supposedly breached.
My guess is Everton will end up with a total of 6 points deducted for both breaches and Forest will end up with the same for one breach. But that is a guess.
16 Feb 2024 23:02:12
Think everyone wants a fair appeals process
The problem appears to be that there is no set punishments for any transgressions and no where in the premier league rules are there set punishments for certain transgressions.
For instance administration is 9pt deduction, Leicester with their ffp breach got a £3m fine, West Ham with their sporting advantage of playing tevez an ineligible player got a fine.
Therefore it is quite hard for it to appear fair when there is nothing to compare it to as all cases are dealt with individually and punished differently.
When we’ve apparently not gained any sporting advantage from the breach to be given a 10pt deduction seems harsh, particularly when West Ham with tevez clearly had a sporting advantage but only were fined makes it very frustrating.
Think the whole affair has shown the premier league in a poor light - not disputing our guilt we even admitted it - it’s just the punishment appears excessive compared to previous punishments of other teams.
Cant wait for it to be all over so we can start to concentrate on the football side of things rather than this.
However looking like the takeover is going to be a mess also and that will then distract us from matters in the pitch.
Just so frustrating that a once great club has been so badly mismanaged and it’s the fans that will suffer from the legacy of moshiri and Kenwright.
{Ed025's Note - good post that Dan mate..
17 Feb 2024 00:53:51
The 10 points will come back.
17 Feb 2024 08:14:01
What so many people fail to grasp though is that the current FFP/ PSR guidelines are not fit for purpose. How can the allowed losses be at the same level now that they were when it came in 10/ 11 years ago? The is no allowances for indexed rising. Player wages and transfer costs are so much higher now it’s just doesn’t work on those figures.
You only have to see that the guidelines are changing form next season I think and even the Premier League can’t hide from this fact. The frustration caused by the time taking to publish the findings of the appeal grows by the day. Just release the findings and we move on. Also the time taking to accept or decline 777 is just ridiculous! Again, just accept them or not and move on!
Ed002, I’m assuming you are not an Everton fan but surely you can see it from our point that all this is frustrating and we start to think it’s a vendetta. You must be the only person in the world that has even mentioned that the points deduction could be too lenient! I’m sure you wouldn’t be saying that if it was your club!
{Ed002's Note - Constantly bleating about not being "fit for purpose" does not detract from Everton knowingly abuse the rules on more than one occasion. They knew this was coming yet continued. There is a huge financial mess now. There is no vendetta - it is all of the making of a club that has caused these problems. Currently the club is broke and having to borrow money every month to pay the wage bill. I explained the process of appeal - it was pointless as the fans simply cannot grasp any of this at all.}
17 Feb 2024 09:41:02
Sorry Ed002 but i have to disagree with you, you say the deduction, the charge and the appeal are not being handled by the Premier league.
The charge was made by the PL. We worked with the PL in relation to our accounts so therefore they did handle the charge.
They have docked us 10 points, they were looking for 12 but the commission decided on 10. We play in the premier league so it was them that punished us on advice of the committee thus they did handle the deduction.
The commission and appeal. Who appointed them, who is paying them. I don't know but I am guessing it's the PL. I could be wrong on that.
In a later reply you mentioned we have been found guilty? We pleaded guilty. Doesn't take columbo to find someone guilty who have pleaded guilty. That's not our issue, our issue is the severity of the punishment, the lack of action against other teams.
You say the PL is not corrupt, its hard to agree with that when you see constant decisions go against us whether it be 2 charges in a year, so we will be charged twice and found guilty i'm guessing twice, before other clubs with more serious charges have been charged once even though their cases stretch way back longer than ours.
VAR constantly screwing us over. There are way more things but I won't go into them.
But hey, I'm a fan, I must be reading too much into things right? Wrong.
I know you are knowledgeable about a lot regarding transfers but you have mentioned before that you are not particularly a football fan, so I don't think you fully understand how this affects us as fans.
We know the club is in a bad state but you are a Ed on on fan site and as far as I and I am sure many others agree, you have an attitude toward us fans. You remind me of a great doctor with a bad bedside manner.
I read this site a few times a day, as I have done for years, I don't comment too much but that's out of choice. I expect some sort of reply saying how stupid I am or some petty response as usual maybe even to be banned, doesn't bother me, I can still read the comments which is what I prefer to do anyway.
{Ed002's Note - The charge was dealt with by an Independent Commission - independent of the Premier League and member clubs, including Everton. The members are appointed by independent Chair of the Premier League Judicial Panel - a very senior Barrister. They are not appointed by the Premier League. The two charges relate to separate years and were investigated - there was no pleading of guilt. Everton attempted to defend their failings and decided not to ask for admissions from some senior staff who may have helped. I assume you don't understand the word "corrupt" and which other clubs with more serious charges have not been charged - the sentence does not even make sense. I do understand that the fans are worried about this matter and as I said originally, I think the punishment was harsh. I can have your account deleted if that is what you want.}
17 Feb 2024 10:20:52
I understand the word. I'm a pretty intelligent bloke. Just because I don't know much about the running of a football club doesn't decrease my intelligence. If we were to have a discussion about my profession I would run rings around you and leave you sitting there open mouthed. But what I wouldn't do is try to make you out to be an idiot for not knowing somethjng about an industry your not involved in. Obviously I don't want my account deleted but I've seen you do it on other pages because people didn't agree with you.
{Ed002's Note - I did not mention your intelligence - but who is paying or otherwise rewarding the Premier League making them corrupt? And are you aware that Everton are a voting member of the Premier League - or is it just the Premier League Board of Directors you are saying are being paid off? I have no idea what your profession is but I am not trying to make you look an idiot as you are doing a tremendous job of humiliating yourself with the string of ridiculous, misinformed posts.}
17 Feb 2024 10:40:23
Not corrupt but very poorly managed. The appearance is one of wanting to score points against 'small' Clubs in order to demonstrate to HMG that outside regulation is not necessary. The deduction was extremely harsh and unprecedented. The Stadium will bring increased employment and income to the area, yet the commission took none of this into account. Is it true that rules were changed half way through the process? The whole process has indeed been a mess. Everton may be forced into administration by the very rules (apparently now being considered for change) supposedly set up to create fairness. I repeat of course no corruption but it is a mess.
{Ed002's Note - The Premier League comprises all of the member clubs so why would they look to "score points" against themselves. It is unrelated to independent oversight. The stadium will bring some additional employment to the area at the cost of huge debt to the club that it cannot afford. The independent commission do not have the remit to take account of anything related to the stadium - it is not part of the calculations at all as it counts as infrastructure.}
17 Feb 2024 11:50:09
I meant the Premier League Board.
{Ed002's Note - So who is paying them for their "corruption" and it seems that Everton as a member has not raised this issue. Or is it simply ill-informed and delusional fans scratching around making all of this up?}